Why did God create apemen?

[Caino]

When one Googles "earliest human civilisation" one gets the following...
"Sumer, located in Mesopotamia, is the first known complex civilization, developing the first city-states in the 4th millennium BCE. It was in these cities that the earliest known form of writing, cuneiform script, appeared around 3000 BCE."

This is perfectly in line with the Bible account that mankind's rise was recent.

But God had experimented with hominids (or "crafty beasts") who used tools, walked upright but never created civilisations, and we find their remains, in tiny numbers. These, such as the Neanderthals, were wiped out before God created Adam and Eve. Whatever method God used to wipe out His proto-humans, it left earth in darkness, without form and void.

At least you are acknowledging the pre- Adamic life forms. Not long ago so-called Christians would have killed you for saying that!!!! Some still would if they could! But the evidence is overwealming so Bible worshipers must now create apologetic narratives to sooth the uncomfortable reality demonstrated by the facts exposed in the archeological record.

Genesis was created by the Hebrew priest class as a foundational psudo biographical teaching tool in the age of the Babylonion captivity. After the return subsequent generations of the authoritarian priest class began claiming that the writings of their progenitors were actually written by God.

 

[Caino]

m

You got all the facts right. Your only mistake is ascribing the sudden explosion of life to chance.

But good point that food chains existed from the Cambrian, and things have been eating other things for millions of years.

I NEVER said “chance”. Evolution was planned, fostered and somewhat predictable to the vastly higher celestial intelligences whose duty it was to oversee it.

 

[Caino]

You are a lemur.:dizzy:
Let's just assume you are monkeying around for humor, as no other explanation would do.:mmph:

I’m human, my distant ancestors were in fact the North American Lemur types that had migrated to and settled in the vicinity of what is now western India where man suddenly appeared roughly 1,000,000 years ago in the highlands of modern day Afghanistan.

 

[Jacob]

I knew little about palaeontology till I joined TOL two years ago. There was a thread started by Michael Cadry on it. Now I read all I can get on the subject. In two years time, you too will be a convert.

Shalom.

I do accept the Bible. I accept the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.

I am a Jew.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[6days]

..I want to speculate as to why God created apemen

God created man distinct from animals, so your question should actually be 'why did man create mythological ape-men?' Both God's Word, and science, exposes the belief in ape man as a mere fairytale. (Abominable Snowman anyone?)

Men have attempted to make fossils of humans, more ape-like (e.g.. Neandertals).... and they have tried to make apes, more human-like. (eg. Darwinius Massilae, Australopithocenes etc). Evolutionists have even tried to make a pig, human-like.

 

[iouae]

At least you are acknowledging the pre- Adamic life forms. Not long ago so-called Christians would have killed you for saying that!!!! Some still would if they could! But the evidence is overwealming so Bible worshipers must now create apologetic narratives to sooth the uncomfortable reality demonstrated by the facts exposed in the archeological record.

At least you acknowledge pre-agamic life forms. That is a great start.

And I don't read the Bible to say Adam and Eve were the beginning of life on earth, but the beginning of recent life on earth, after one of many mass extinctions.

For instance I read Genesis to say the first day of (re)creation God said let there be light. Gen 1:3

Then in Gen 1:14- God seems to repeat making light

Gen 1:14
¶
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

I have already explained in a past post what this means.
In short, God did not create the sun to give light twice.

Thus I have no problem with the Bible account, and see it fitting in perfectly with science, an old earth, and the fossil record.

 

[iouae]

I NEVER said “chance”. Evolution was planned, fostered and somewhat predictable to the vastly higher celestial intelligences whose duty it was to oversee it.

Evolution relies on chance and good luck.
I know how complicated, just one single cell is, how many chemicals have to come together, how many reactions need to take place to sustain it. In the human it is 10^9 reactions per second I once looked up.

If one took something infinitely more simple, such as the remote for your TV, broke it into its separate components, then put these components in a bag and shook them and heated them,and did random things to them, what chance do you see of these components turning into a remote.

Then take the chance of you even having one component, say a transistor or an LED. You have to wonder how these could arise by chance. etc.

And I have studied evolution, and utterly reject it. It was invented as a myth, just like ancient cultures invented myths to explain where everything came from. And learned men like Dawkins think they are being so smart when with a straight face they tell these "just-so" stories that they cannot prove one bit.

 

[iouae]

God created man distinct from animals, so your question should actually be 'why did man create mythological ape-men?' Both God's Word, and science, exposes the belief in ape man as a mere fairytale. (Abominable Snowman anyone?)

Men have attempted to make fossils of humans, more ape-like (e.g.. Neandertals).... and they have tried to make apes, more human-like. (eg. Darwinius Massilae, Australopithocenes etc). Evolutionists have even tried to make a pig, human-like.

Whatever you want to call them, how do you explain away the evidence of proto-humans?
Here is some of the actual evidence at...
https://medium.com/@johnhawks/how-m...ntists-found-for-human-evolution-355801dfd35c

Because I have no problem with God, as the Great Scientist, performing experiments and trying things out, and learning, I personally speculate that proto-humans are just that, God playing with various human-like creatures, till He gets it right to have a being in His image, who has the psychological right state of mind to comprehend eternity, and want to worship a God.

Because many do not understand how hard it is to make anything, let alone a man, they think God could easily just do it right first time.

The Bible itself explains how God does not do it right the first time, when after the flood God reduces human lifespan to 70 years from 900, because beings who live 900 years don't need God. Giving man longevity was clearly a mistake on God's part, because only three in 1600 years were saved. So God wiped mankind out and started again with Noah's descendants.

 

[Caino]

Evolution relies on chance and good luck.
I know how complicated, just one single cell is, how many chemicals have to come together, how many reactions need to take place to sustain it. In the human it is 10^9 reactions per second I once looked up.

If one took something infinitely more simple, such as the remote for your TV, broke it into its separate components, then put these components in a bag and shook them and heated them,and did random things to them, what chance do you see of these components turning into a remote.

Then take the chance of you even having one component, say a transistor or an LED. You have to wonder how these could arise by chance. etc.

And I have studied evolution, and utterly reject it. It was invented as a myth, just like ancient cultures invented myths to explain where everything came from. And learned men like Dawkins think they are being so smart when with a straight face they tell these "just-so" stories that they cannot prove one bit.

"Chance" and "good luck"? Again, your preconditioned bias leads you to hear or read things that I didn't say. The mechanism of the evolution of life was designed.

People who want Biblical authority in the presence of the facts of scientific discovery, must self deceptively bend the story, ignoring some parts and elevating others, to suit a flimsy agenda.

When the Hebrews redacted the OT books in Babylon, converting ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction by appropriating Mesopotamian lore to buttress their "chosen people" delusion, they failed to remove parts of the previous records such as Cain fearing people out in the world away from his parents tribe.

Christians have a narrative of the fall of Satan but fail to explain that it had to have happened before Eve was ever outflanked by him. The archeological records of human activity going back 1,000,000 years actually debunk the YEC of the Hebrews creation story and support the fragments of the original story of Moses left in the record.

 

[iouae]

"Chance" and "good luck"? Again, your preconditioned bias leads you to hear or read things that I didn't say. The mechanism of the evolution of life was designed.

People who want Biblical authority in the presence of the facts of scientific discovery, must self deceptively bend the story, ignoring some parts and elevating others, to suit a flimsy agenda.

When the Hebrews redacted the OT books in Babylon, converting ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction by appropriating Mesopotamian lore to buttress their "chosen people" delusion, they failed to remove parts of the previous records such as Cain fearing people out in the world away from his parents tribe.

Christians have a narrative of the fall of Satan but fail to explain that it had to have happened before Eve was ever outflanked by him. The archeological records of human activity going back 1,000,000 years actually debunk the YEC of the Hebrews creation story and support the fragments of the original story of Moses left in the record.

I understand what you are saying except when you say " The mechanism of the evolution of life was designed."

Please explain that. Who designed it? Why call it "evolution", when evolutionists reject design?

 

[6days]

Whatever you want to call them, how do you explain away the evidence of proto-humans?
Here is some of the actual evidence at...
https://medium.com/@johnhawks/how-mu...n-355801dfd35c

Iouae.... You don't seem to understand 'evidence. Evidence is the bones being discussed in that article. You are confusing evidence with your beliefs about the past.


They use Neanderthals as an evidence which is pretty ridiculous. Science has proven virtually everything evolutionists once believed about Neandertals to be false. Neanderthals were simply a distinct people group as are pygmies, Inuit etc..... All people groups are descendants of Adam and Eve. Did you want to discuss evidence from anything in your article?

Because I have no problem with God, as the Great Scientist, performing experiments and trying things out, and learning...

You have an impotent god... Baal worship. My God is Jehovah.

 

[iouae]

They use Neanderthals as an evidence which is pretty ridiculous. Science has proven virtually everything evolutionists once believed about Neandertals to be false. Neanderthals were simply a distinct people group as are pygmies, Inuit etc..... All people groups are descendants of Adam and Eve. Did you want to discuss evidence from anything in your article?

They have mapped the genomes of Neanderthals and Homo sapiens, and it is clear from their genomes that Neanderthals and modern humans have very different genomes. This proves, they are different "kinds". See...

It seems that God used a tiny bit of Neanderthals DNA, placing this in Homo sapiens. I doubt Adam and Eve ever encountered a Neanderthal, and I know they never left The Garden of Eden for Jurassic Park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic_human_admixture_with_modern_humans

 

[6days]

They have mapped the genomes of Neanderthals and Homo sapiens, and it is clear from their genomes that Neanderthals and modern humans have very different genomes. This proves, they are different "kinds".

I see your knowledge of genetics is as poor as your understanding of scripture. Neandertals are 99.7 similar to us. You and I are likely 99.9% the same. The difference is easily understood with a little knowledge of genetics... mutations... and God's Word.

Since you and I are descendants of Neanderthals, we all are the same created kind.

 

[Caino]

I understand what you are saying except when you say " The mechanism of the evolution of life was designed."

Please explain that. Who designed it? Why call it "evolution", when evolutionists reject design?

Not all evolutionist reject design or a creator who designed the life that evolves. I said from the outset, the primitive life forms that were planted on earth once earth reached the stage wherein it could sustain life.

I am a student of the Urantia Revelation from the 20th century. It is revealed with the massive tome the process and identity of life evolution on earth. Its somewhat complex but there are more than material factors or mechanisms that play an indispensable role in the evolution of life. These other factors of mind and spirit elude evolutionary scientist.

Clip:


The Urantia Book
Paper 65

THE OVERCONTROL OF EVOLUTION

65:0.1 BASIC EVOLUTIONARY material life—premind life—is the formulation of the Master Physical Controllers and the life-impartation ministry of the Seven Master Spirits in conjunction with the active ministration of the ordained Life Carriers. As a result of the co-ordinate function of this threefold creativity there develops organismal physical capacity for mind—material mechanisms for intelligent reaction to external environmental stimuli and, later on, to internal stimuli, influences taking origin in the organismal mind itself.


65:0.2 There are, then, three distinct levels of life production and evolution:

1. The physical-energy domain—mind-capacity production.
2. The mind ministry of the adjutant spirits—impinging upon spirit capacity.
3. The spirit endowment of mortal mind—culminating in Thought Adjuster bestowal.


65:0.6 The mechanical-nonteachable levels of organismal environmental response are the domains of the physical controllers. The adjutant mind-spirits activate and regulate the adaptative or nonmechanical-teachable types of mind—those response mechanisms of organisms capable of learning from experience. And as the spirit adjutants thus manipulate mind potentials, so do the Life Carriers exercise considerable discretionary control over the environmental aspects of evolutionary processes right up to the time of the appearance of human will—the ability to know God and the power of choosing to worship him.

65:0.7 It is the integrated functioning of the Life Carriers, the physical controllers, and the spirit adjutants that conditions the course of organic evolution on the inhabited worlds. And this is why evolution—on Urantia or elsewhere—is always purposeful and never accidental".


From the Book of Revelation 5:6 "Then I saw a Lamb who appeared to have been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the sevenfold Spirit of God sent out into all the earth."

 

[iouae]

I see your knowledge of genetics is as poor as your understanding of scripture. Neandertals are 99.7 similar to us. You and I are likely 99.9% the same. The difference is easily understood with a little knowledge of genetics... mutations... and God's Word.

Since you and I are descendants of Neanderthals, we all are the same created kind.

Articles like this... https://www.livescience.com/1122-neanderthal-99-5-percent-human.html
...which map human and Neanderthal genomes, agree with your percentages, but say that modern humans and Neanderthals did not interbreed.

"The results from the new studies confirm the Neanderthal's humanity, and show that their genomes and ours are more than 99.5 percent identical, differing by only about 3 million bases.

"This is a drop in the bucket if you consider that the human genome is 3 billion bases," said Edward Rubin of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, who led one of the research teams.

For comparison, the genomes of chimpanzees, our closest living relatives, differ from humans by about 30 million to 50 million base pairs.

The findings also appear to refute speculations by some scientists that Neanderthals and humans interbred in more recent times. "We see no evidence of mixing 30,000 to 40,000 years ago in Europe," Rubin said. "We don't exclude it, but from the data that we have, we have no evidence that pages were ripped from one genome and put in the other.""

The science seems to suggest that Neanderthals predate modern humans.
As I said earlier on in this thread, my speculation is that God was trying out various types of hominid, seeing how they functioned, and making small adjustments.

Neanderthals were bigger brained than us and stronger.
It is again my speculation that because they were too competent, God dumbed them down a bit, and made them weaker.

What God was interested in was a hominid which was sociable, and reliant on outside help from other humans, and God. Our weakness forces us together to survive.

 

[iouae]

Caino

I go by John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And going by the pattern in Genesis 1, at each replenishing of the earth after each mass extinction, it is God who is doing the creating in a near instant fashion. It is quite possible that the angels and spirit realm are involved behind the scenes.

 

[6days]

Articles like this.....Neanderthals did not interbreed.

Iouae... Why are you trying to fit secular opinions (and old ones from 2006) into God's Word? Why would you rather accept opinions that contradict scripture, than accept science and opinions which show the truth of Scripture?


You can easily Google or search for both Christian and secular scientists, which show your above statement is false. (I will provide links from 2016 or 17 if you need)

For comparison, the genomes of chimpanzees, our closest living relatives, differ from humans by about 30 million to 50 million base pairs.

As I said before... you don't seem to have a good grasp of genetics. The comparison to chimps is dishonest and in some ways impossible. There are complete sequences that are in humans and in chimps that does not exist in the other. We should expect that there are more similarities between us and chimps though, than between us and many other creatures.

The science seems to suggest that Neanderthals predate modern humans.

No... again you confuse opinions with science. In the past evolutionists said the science shows Neandertals were stooped over hairy beasts? Was that science? NO!

In the past evolutionists said the science shows Neandertals were dimwitted and had no culture? Was that science? NO!

In the past evolutionists said the science shows Neandertals were mostly carnivores? Was that science? NO!

In the past evolutionists said the science shows Neandertals didn't bury their dead and that they had no culture. Was that science? NO!

In the past evolutionists said the science shows Neandertals where in articulate. Was that science? NO?

And yet you still trust evolutionist opinions over God's Word?

As I said earlier on in this thread, my speculation is that God was trying out various types of hominid, seeing how they functioned, and making small adjustments.

If we are just repeating ourselves, what I said earlier in this thread is you have an impotent god... Baal worship. My God is Jehovah.

 

[Ktoyou]

I’m human, my distant ancestors were in fact the North American Lemur types that had migrated to and settled in the vicinity of what is now western India where man suddenly appeared roughly 1,000,000 years ago in the highlands of modern day Afghanistan.

Do you have a long tail?

Does Mr. Parker scare you?

 

[Caino]

Do you have a long tail?

Does Mr. Parker scare you?

Do you have wisdom teeth? Do you use them?

 

[6days]

Do you have wisdom teeth? Do you use them?

I'm not sure about the state of her wisdom teeth,but I do see the state of her wisdom.

Caino.... losing a trait..... or a tooth is easily explained within the Biblical model and by science.
However.... the frog to handsome prince fairy tale requires that a 'frog' can eventually evolve wisdom teeth.

Your loss of information example, is the opposite direction of the uphill fairy tale you believe in. (Or.... maybe you believe you are the handsome prince evolving towards froghood?)