iouae
Well-known member
In this post I want to speculate as to why God created apemen.
But to do so, I have to first list the premises upon which my speculation is based. I believe these premises are solid, and have been proven in this thread and in the one, "God learns".
1) God learns. He knows a lot but He does not know it all.
2) The idea that God knows the future and that the future is predestined, down to the smallest detail, is nonsense.
3) God is Being, like us, who looks like us, has appendages like ours, has emotions like us, and learns and often behaves in a somewhat fickle and whimsical way, such as when He changes His mind, to grant our requests.
4) Because the future is not cast in stone, God, like us, walks in faith, trusting that this somewhat unknown journey together, will turn out right.
5) When things go wrong, and not according to God's plan, God has the power to correct the wrong. Eg. when Lucifer became Satan together with many angels, or when man fell, in Eden, God has a plan to use the evil, and correct it.
6) God does not always get His way. For instance He would have all men saved, but not all will be.
7) Thus God uses chance in His plan. Having given man free will, He created more humans than He needs (overbooked) realising that there would be an attrition rate, and that some will fall away, but enough will be left.
8) God does not know which individuals will be ultimately saved when He calls them. We have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. This means, we keep a good attitude towards God, and He works with us to overcome our failings.
9) Everything occurs in real time. Choices are made in real time. Nothing is pre-determined. God can change His mind at any time and say, not destroy Nineveh as promised, in 40 days. Likewise God can promise Israel a promised land and liberation, but if they rebel, He can swear in His wrath that they will not enter His rest. Thus God changes arrangements.
10) When God expresses wrath, it is genuine, at that moment emotion which wells up in God, as wrath wells up in us. When God is jealous, or grieved, or He repents of making man, as before the flood, these are genuine and spontaneous emotions. God is not play-acting according to a predestined script.
11) The universe is ancient, perhaps 13.75 billion years old.
12) The fossil record is to be believed. Strata with definite groups of plants and animals are always found buried together, and some older ones, never with younger ones.
13) Modern man or Homo sapiens WAS placed on earth 6000 years ago.
14) Genesis 1 describes a post-mass extinction, recreation of modern life forms on earth.
15) There were many such "explosions" of new life forms, on earth in the past. The creation described in Genesis 1 is but one of a dozen mass extinctions in earth's geological history.
16) It takes God time and much thought to create new life forms. This is hard, difficult work, even for God.
17) Time exists in the spirit realm, just as time exists in the material universe. So do the 3 dimensions of length, breadth and height exist in the spirit realm.
18) All God's experimentation with different life forms is done on earth, with the leftover results for us to see. God neither tries to hide these, nor to preserve them.
19) God does not lie. If dinosaur bones are found, dinosaurs existed. If light from stars billions of light-years away is reaching us now, that light left billions of light years ago. God does not create the universe to look old, when in actual fact it is only 6000 years old. God did not "plant" fossils to deceive us, nor did He allow Satan to do so.
20) The world is not perfect. It is full of compromises such as good existing side by side with evil. God worked on the world, terraforming it and its species, till it was "good enough" to house beings after His likeness. Its not perfect because His "little ones" or newbie believers can get offended by some oaf and God is powerless to put those offending words back into the oaf's mouth and unoffend His little one. But God has extra little ones in case some do take offence. There are the heirs and the spares, just as in William and Harry. The heir needs to make sure that he pulls his weight or the spare will take his (the heir's) crown. If the crown was intended for someone, and another gets it, it shows God works with averages.
With these caveats in mind, lets ask why God created apemen?
Common answers are...
Apemen are really just past species of apes.
They are sick, past humans, with cretinism or some other disease.
They are hoaxes played by the scientific community, such as the Piltdown man.
Scientists find a tooth, and recreate a whole new species from nothing.
Its all a hoax.
Apemen were fallen, depraved, pre-flood humans.
There are a great variety of humans on earth today, such as Pygmies. Apemen were just such tribe.
Many will refuse to even think about apemen, because it makes them uncomfortable.
Monkeys and apes are modern. There were no monkey-like creatures living at the time of the dinosaurs. There are no ape-like dinosaurs.
I speculate, that as the time came for God to create man, so He started to create animals compatible with mankind. Thus, after the destruction of the dinosaurs which ended the Mesozoic era, the curtain rose on mammals, who are warm-blooded, furry, live-bearing, small etc. like us. We would have been wiped out in a week if God planted mankind in Jurassic Park.
The closer God got to creating man, the closer He created species which resemble man, to try them out. Apemen are experiments with human prototypes. But, you ask, why would God need to experiment? Because God learned from each apeman, what worked and what did not.
For instance, a big brain chomps a lot of energy resources. Our brains consume 20% of our food energy. Small brained animals can give this extra energy to bigger muscles or bigger jaws. Humans are weak physically, compared, to, say chimps with smaller brains. A chimp will rip a human apart in a MMA tournament.
A big brain needs a big head. But this head must fit through the pelvic canal, which requires bigger hips. Bigger hips affect walking or bipedalism. Unlike other animals, the human brain grows threefold bigger after birth to 1.3 litres at adulthood. This necessitates babies being born helpless. This necessitates long post-natal care by parents.
These were all new to humans and needed trying out. Getting the exact brain size, and body strength right, took tweaking. Also male female dimorphism needed tweaking. Male and female humans are very similar in size, unlike apes. If males have to fight for mates, they must be big. Where males are similar size to females, it means males don't physically fight for females.
These types of new characteristics, together with speech, needed fine tuning. Humans have a low larynx to allow us to make sounds. This means we cannot swallow and inhale simultaneously. But human babies can. Most/all other mammals can breath and swallow.
God did not do a lot of fiddling. Hominids and human ancestors only go back 12 million years whereas life goes back 500 million years. Hominid dating is very inaccurate, with every anthropologist trying to claim the oldest human ancestor, and lying/exaggerating the age of the fossil.
There are thousands of hominid fossils. Gone are the days when one could fit all prototype human fossils on one table. Now it takes many rooms to house them. On the other hand, hominid fossil finds are extremely rare compared to most other fossils. There are thousands of Trilobite finds, or dinosaur bone finds, for every apeman fossil.
Some human precursors like Neanderthals had bigger brains and muscles than ours. They were less sociable, more self-sufficient, less likely to be sociable, less needing to converse, less needing of tools. They were like the Swiss-army knife of humans, complete. But therein may have been a problem. God wanted "sheep" or sissy weaklings like ourselves, who would be needy of each other and Him. This would force us to cooperate and play nicely together. So God settled on Homo sapiens, rather than Homo neanderthalensis as the form of human to save, because we need saving.
Even so, in the pre-flood period, only 3 souls were saved because humans lived 900 years and were still too not-needing of God. So God took away this near immortality and gave us 70 years, to push us into making a decision, since death stared us in the face at birth.
But to do so, I have to first list the premises upon which my speculation is based. I believe these premises are solid, and have been proven in this thread and in the one, "God learns".
1) God learns. He knows a lot but He does not know it all.
2) The idea that God knows the future and that the future is predestined, down to the smallest detail, is nonsense.
3) God is Being, like us, who looks like us, has appendages like ours, has emotions like us, and learns and often behaves in a somewhat fickle and whimsical way, such as when He changes His mind, to grant our requests.
4) Because the future is not cast in stone, God, like us, walks in faith, trusting that this somewhat unknown journey together, will turn out right.
5) When things go wrong, and not according to God's plan, God has the power to correct the wrong. Eg. when Lucifer became Satan together with many angels, or when man fell, in Eden, God has a plan to use the evil, and correct it.
6) God does not always get His way. For instance He would have all men saved, but not all will be.
7) Thus God uses chance in His plan. Having given man free will, He created more humans than He needs (overbooked) realising that there would be an attrition rate, and that some will fall away, but enough will be left.
8) God does not know which individuals will be ultimately saved when He calls them. We have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. This means, we keep a good attitude towards God, and He works with us to overcome our failings.
9) Everything occurs in real time. Choices are made in real time. Nothing is pre-determined. God can change His mind at any time and say, not destroy Nineveh as promised, in 40 days. Likewise God can promise Israel a promised land and liberation, but if they rebel, He can swear in His wrath that they will not enter His rest. Thus God changes arrangements.
10) When God expresses wrath, it is genuine, at that moment emotion which wells up in God, as wrath wells up in us. When God is jealous, or grieved, or He repents of making man, as before the flood, these are genuine and spontaneous emotions. God is not play-acting according to a predestined script.
11) The universe is ancient, perhaps 13.75 billion years old.
12) The fossil record is to be believed. Strata with definite groups of plants and animals are always found buried together, and some older ones, never with younger ones.
13) Modern man or Homo sapiens WAS placed on earth 6000 years ago.
14) Genesis 1 describes a post-mass extinction, recreation of modern life forms on earth.
15) There were many such "explosions" of new life forms, on earth in the past. The creation described in Genesis 1 is but one of a dozen mass extinctions in earth's geological history.
16) It takes God time and much thought to create new life forms. This is hard, difficult work, even for God.
17) Time exists in the spirit realm, just as time exists in the material universe. So do the 3 dimensions of length, breadth and height exist in the spirit realm.
18) All God's experimentation with different life forms is done on earth, with the leftover results for us to see. God neither tries to hide these, nor to preserve them.
19) God does not lie. If dinosaur bones are found, dinosaurs existed. If light from stars billions of light-years away is reaching us now, that light left billions of light years ago. God does not create the universe to look old, when in actual fact it is only 6000 years old. God did not "plant" fossils to deceive us, nor did He allow Satan to do so.
20) The world is not perfect. It is full of compromises such as good existing side by side with evil. God worked on the world, terraforming it and its species, till it was "good enough" to house beings after His likeness. Its not perfect because His "little ones" or newbie believers can get offended by some oaf and God is powerless to put those offending words back into the oaf's mouth and unoffend His little one. But God has extra little ones in case some do take offence. There are the heirs and the spares, just as in William and Harry. The heir needs to make sure that he pulls his weight or the spare will take his (the heir's) crown. If the crown was intended for someone, and another gets it, it shows God works with averages.
With these caveats in mind, lets ask why God created apemen?
Common answers are...
Apemen are really just past species of apes.
They are sick, past humans, with cretinism or some other disease.
They are hoaxes played by the scientific community, such as the Piltdown man.
Scientists find a tooth, and recreate a whole new species from nothing.
Its all a hoax.
Apemen were fallen, depraved, pre-flood humans.
There are a great variety of humans on earth today, such as Pygmies. Apemen were just such tribe.
Many will refuse to even think about apemen, because it makes them uncomfortable.
Monkeys and apes are modern. There were no monkey-like creatures living at the time of the dinosaurs. There are no ape-like dinosaurs.
I speculate, that as the time came for God to create man, so He started to create animals compatible with mankind. Thus, after the destruction of the dinosaurs which ended the Mesozoic era, the curtain rose on mammals, who are warm-blooded, furry, live-bearing, small etc. like us. We would have been wiped out in a week if God planted mankind in Jurassic Park.
The closer God got to creating man, the closer He created species which resemble man, to try them out. Apemen are experiments with human prototypes. But, you ask, why would God need to experiment? Because God learned from each apeman, what worked and what did not.
For instance, a big brain chomps a lot of energy resources. Our brains consume 20% of our food energy. Small brained animals can give this extra energy to bigger muscles or bigger jaws. Humans are weak physically, compared, to, say chimps with smaller brains. A chimp will rip a human apart in a MMA tournament.
A big brain needs a big head. But this head must fit through the pelvic canal, which requires bigger hips. Bigger hips affect walking or bipedalism. Unlike other animals, the human brain grows threefold bigger after birth to 1.3 litres at adulthood. This necessitates babies being born helpless. This necessitates long post-natal care by parents.
These were all new to humans and needed trying out. Getting the exact brain size, and body strength right, took tweaking. Also male female dimorphism needed tweaking. Male and female humans are very similar in size, unlike apes. If males have to fight for mates, they must be big. Where males are similar size to females, it means males don't physically fight for females.
These types of new characteristics, together with speech, needed fine tuning. Humans have a low larynx to allow us to make sounds. This means we cannot swallow and inhale simultaneously. But human babies can. Most/all other mammals can breath and swallow.
God did not do a lot of fiddling. Hominids and human ancestors only go back 12 million years whereas life goes back 500 million years. Hominid dating is very inaccurate, with every anthropologist trying to claim the oldest human ancestor, and lying/exaggerating the age of the fossil.
There are thousands of hominid fossils. Gone are the days when one could fit all prototype human fossils on one table. Now it takes many rooms to house them. On the other hand, hominid fossil finds are extremely rare compared to most other fossils. There are thousands of Trilobite finds, or dinosaur bone finds, for every apeman fossil.
Some human precursors like Neanderthals had bigger brains and muscles than ours. They were less sociable, more self-sufficient, less likely to be sociable, less needing to converse, less needing of tools. They were like the Swiss-army knife of humans, complete. But therein may have been a problem. God wanted "sheep" or sissy weaklings like ourselves, who would be needy of each other and Him. This would force us to cooperate and play nicely together. So God settled on Homo sapiens, rather than Homo neanderthalensis as the form of human to save, because we need saving.
Even so, in the pre-flood period, only 3 souls were saved because humans lived 900 years and were still too not-needing of God. So God took away this near immortality and gave us 70 years, to push us into making a decision, since death stared us in the face at birth.
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