It can be. Though someone might see your posture, specifically as you illustrate it in dealing with Cathy Sanders and her loss, as a little self righteous, don't you think?
No. I don't agree. Self-righteousness is when one seeks to be righteous apart from Jesus Christ through their own actions. I watched her on the show, and I judged her to be proud that she could forgive an unrepentant murderer who had murdered her grandchildren.
I don't blame Cathy. I blame the false Christian teachers in the Body of Christ who taught her that she should forgive the unrepentant. If God won't forgive the unrepentant, then why should we? When we do this, we teach others that there is forgiveness without repentance. We should never, never, never do this. When we teach this, then it is difficlt to get them to repent and accept Jesus Christ, for they logically think that they are forgiven already. Why not? You forgave them without requiring repentance.
That you call her sharing of forgiveness a boast goes a long way toward my not finding your next statement particularly credible.
I'm a Christian man. Why do you not find it credible that "my heart goes out to her"? This is something that I don't have to prove to you. Take my statement at face value or leave it.
I think you're right there, except in your aim. On the upside, she'd probably forgive you for it.
lain:
Forgive me for what? For trying to correct the false teaching she has received over the years.
Ironically, Cathy probably would have no problem rebuking me. Just as you have no problem rebuking me. Over the years, I've found that Christians who don't believe in judging or rebuking have no problem judging and rebuking me, a fellow Christian. You and Cathy, who believe you should forgive everyone, will probably be very unforgiving of me. If you believe that you should forgive unrepentant Timothy McVeigh, why did you not automatically forgive me for my posit?
Way to look into her heart and find it wanting. Shame on you. Literally, shame on you.
What happend to your nicer-than-God attitude? You argue that it's okay for Cathy to forgive unrepentant McVeigh, but you have no problem slamming a Christian brother. I submit that this nicer-than-God attitude that you espouse is untenable and can't be maintained. False Christian teachers tell a rape victim that she has to love her rapist and forgive him, even when he's unrepentant. She tries her best, fails, and then feels condemned. I never tell someone this. I tell her to harshly rebuke him.
Jesus said that we can judge by their fruits. Jesus said to judge with righteous judgment. I wish that I could have gotten to Cathy before she unwisely forgave Timothy. NO! I wish that I could have gotten to Cathy's pastor before he filled her head with false doctrine. I blame her pastor more than I blame her. He has the greater sin.
Why should McVeigh have repented? She forgave him without him doing so. She should have rebuked him harshly and warned him that she would be his judge on judgmen day unless he repented.
I don't believe she intoned that because of her action he was free of sin. Else, it's her business how she approaches him, be it in understandable anger or in the spirit of one hopeful for the fate of his soul. I think we all know which is harder to do.
When I said that she had no standing to forgive him, I meant it. If I sin against you, only you have standing to forgive. Your neighbor can't forgive me for you. If I owe you $10.00, only you can forgive the debt. Now a Third Party, with my permission, can pay my debt--as Jesus Christ did for us. The two people who can forgive Timothy are the two grandchildren whom he murdered. They are with the Lord. So Timothy can only receive forgiveness from God. But he has to repent first. Now Cathy can forgive Timothy only to the extent that she has been hurt by him. But he still has to repent. She can't forgive Timothy for the murdered grandchildren. If Timothy had repented and accepted Jesus, he would go to heaven.
You seem so interested in making your larger point (which isn't without merit) that you're using the wrong illustration and methodology in the attempt, forcing your preconception on it and us as though it were gospel
I can give scripture for any challenge you care to make. Jesus said, "If your brother sins aganst you REBUKE him. And IF he repents, forgive him. And if you read my other posts, I gave plenty of Scripture to support my argument that God hates the wicked and that we should too.
What did she actually say that led you to believe she was doing more than exactly that?
She said that she forgave Timothy for murdering her grandchildren.
Nope. That's not scriptural. You are to forgive someone if they ask, but there's no verse forbidding you to do so unless they ask.
Luke 17:3. Jesus commanded His apostles: "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, REBUKE him; and IF he repents, forgive him." Now you can ignore Jesus and write your own sheet of music. I choose to obey Jesus Christ. The reason Cathy was misled is because of Christians like you: "I know what Jesus said, but I think...."
Then he missed his opportunity. She didn't.
I'm sure you've read Jesus' Woe to the Pharisees? Jesus' rebuke here makes a Marine Corps drill sergeant look like Barney Fife. But guess what? In the Book of Acts and in Paul's epistles, we read of "believng Pharisees." Aparently, Jesus' harsh rebuke led them to repentance. Paul's first letter to Corinthians is dripping with sarcasm. But guess what? The Corinthians repented and Paul wrote in his second epistle that although he was sorry that he had to write that first letter, he was glad that he did, because it led to their repentance. Cathy's unconditional forgiveness no doubt made her feel good. But it did nothing to save Timothy.
An open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed.
God bless, Tom from Mabank, TX
