So where were they cast down from?
The existence of Satan makes no sense.
- Thread starter fcisd
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So where were they cast down from?
@ fcisd.....The answer is, He has a plan. We were one with Him from the foundation of the world. But He didn't want companions/children that only loved Him because that's all they knew. He wanted ones that would have the choice to love and obey Him. He didn't want anymore beings, like Satan, to go unproven.
He has a timeline, and He has busy working for the past 6 days (a day is like a thousand years) to accomplish His will with mankind. Satan serves as a polar opposite, he's a servant, who does his job well.
Is He real? I see no reason to believe he's not, since I've experienced the reality of demons being real, in the realm of deliverance ministry.
As for why heaven didn't change, the earth was cursed because of what the first man did in disobedience. So was the serpent. Why would He curse His abode?
As for the fall of any others up there, it's impossible because for them to be there in the first place, all darkness in them has been overcome by the blood of the Lamb. I hope this helps you. Peace
He has a timeline, and He has busy working for the past 6 days (a day is like a thousand years) to accomplish His will with mankind. Satan serves as a polar opposite, he's a servant, who does his job well.
Is He real? I see no reason to believe he's not, since I've experienced the reality of demons being real, in the realm of deliverance ministry.
As for why heaven didn't change, the earth was cursed because of what the first man did in disobedience. So was the serpent. Why would He curse His abode?
As for the fall of any others up there, it's impossible because for them to be there in the first place, all darkness in them has been overcome by the blood of the Lamb. I hope this helps you. Peace
popsthebuilder
New member
Just because they weren't allowed to stay in heaven because of their greed doesn't mean they actually sinned in heaven.
Were they cast down to await judgment?
Why shouldn't you?
The devil was created the greatest of fallen angels (Rev. 12:7–9). He tempts man to sin (Gen. 3:1–7). He is the father of lies (Jn 8:44). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 176). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.
See:
Hermeneutics
Zeke
Well-known member
So God created the Devil, a experiment gone awry! Then put His off spring made in His Spiritual image in the same compound, knowing full well that this lurking misfit would encounter them. Sounds like a case for the Child protection agency, or read it like it was meant to be read ESOTERICALLY. Galatians 4:24.
The scripture plainly states that the heavens and the earth and EVERYTHING in them was created in six days. This includes Lucifer and the rest of the angels.
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
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Zeke
Well-known member
No. We learn much about him in his dealings with the wicked (Ro 9:22).opcorn:
Go back and read chapter seven, the body of destruction is you're body made up of matter that corrupts, which is the law of nature, the conscience never dies which puts on a light body after the physical one fails, Luke 15:45.
OCTOBER23
New member
Question:
So here is the problem, if this world became what it is because of Adam and Eve sinning,
then why didn't heaven get the same results
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Answer:
Same Result - Both Sinning Parties were cast out into where they came from the Earth.
They obeyed THE SERPENT and Relinquished Rule over the Earth.
SATAN IS RULING NOW AND JESUS WILL TAKE OVER IN A FEW YEARS TIME.
So here is the problem, if this world became what it is because of Adam and Eve sinning,
then why didn't heaven get the same results
--------------------------------------------------------------
Answer:
Same Result - Both Sinning Parties were cast out into where they came from the Earth.
They obeyed THE SERPENT and Relinquished Rule over the Earth.
SATAN IS RULING NOW AND JESUS WILL TAKE OVER IN A FEW YEARS TIME.
Well he'd have no business in the Garden of Eden otherwise. I can't think of a good reason why God would let Satan in there. Lucifer, on the other hand was an Arch Angel. No reason to prevent him from entering.
Further, if he rebelled prior to that, it would have to be immediately prior because Lucifer was created at some point during the creation week (Exodus 20:11) and if he rebelled before this, the bible fails to tell us so. The first mention of any sin anywhere is in the Garden of God when Adam and Eve were tempted. If you want to read about the first mention of sin, Genesis 3 is the place to go.
Your logic doesn't follow. In what way is it not just?
God is the one sinned against and God is the one who responds justly. The angels were not made in the image of God and so He chose not to make provision for the salvation of the angels that rebelled. That is not unjust. He was not required by the demands of justice to provide for our salvation. But God is not a magician either, as the Calvinists would have you believe. God is real and therefore cannot do the irrational. He cannot do things that have no consequences. So, while Adam and Eve died spiritually (i.e. they were separated from the presence of God) and while they were made mortal in their physical bodies, He did not wipe out the human race.
The consequences of which are two fold; Firstly the world is inhabited for a finite period of time by sinful human beings that harm one another, secondly God can work a plan that will permit some of them to be saved for eternity. God clearly believes the later is worth the cost of the former. Indeed, worth that and much more because, once again, God, if He is just, must meet the demands of justice and the wages of sin is death (i.e. separation from God). Therefore God paid that price for us. Jesus, God the Son died (both spiritually and physically) in our place and He did so precisely because God is real and cannot just wink away the consequences of sin.
So I ask you again, in what way is it unjust? By what standard?
Resting in Him,
Clete
CherubRam
New member
Satan (The Adversary) is cast down in this world. Earth is called heaven. People imagine vain things from their traditions.
Genesis 1:6
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is among you."
There are many heavens and Earth is one of them.
Earth is not heaven, but there are three heavens. The atmosphere is one heaven, the space beyond the atmosphere is another heaven, and then there is the spiritual dimension (heaven) that surrounds the earth.
CherubRam
New member
Revelation 10:4
And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.”
Revelation 11:15
The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”
The word "heaven" means place-s.
CherubRam
New member
Where is the dragon? He is on the Earth. Where does the war take place? The war takes place on the Earth.
Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:13
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
So they were just cast down and labeled as evil for nothing then?
I appreciate your answer but it doesn't touch the question as to why Heaven never changed and the earth did. If you take a look at the massive sufferings in this world, not just with humans but even the animals... we have been taught that this is the result of a broken world because of Adam and Eve bringing sin. So question goes, if sin entered heaven first then why didn't it change or degrade just like with the earth?
popsthebuilder
New member
It's my understandng that they where cast into hell which is attached to earth in some way. Hell and Earth and Heaven will all be changed to an extent that is incomprehensable around the time of the judgement. Does that mean that they can still change their fate? Not sure. I have read in some scripture that praying on behalf of those damned to hell is useless. It is said that hell is for a limited time which is obvious if it's going to be destroyed or completely changed in the end times. After that time will the fallen have yet another chance to repent and return under God? Will they all be destroyed without regard indiscriminately? I really don't know. I know our God is a merciful God though. I also know hope, Faith, and direction under God go a long way, and that the power and possibility of God is endless.
1. Have you not read any of the verses that illustrate eternal life and heaven? It is a place of perfection, where no suffering exists. If you are claiming this to be some wild assertion that needs back up then you are admitting that there is possible death, pain, and suffering up there.
2. No one has countered anything. My question about why Heaven never changed and why we should believe that the rest of the angels and saints are still up there if sin is possible to be done. It looks like you are throwing any guess you can and trying to insult me because you are also mind boggled by this question and it's frustrating you.
You are being arrogant, telling me i'm not making sense when you could not even reply with any reasonable answer that is in context to the point. All you are doing is making various guesses such as now "the angels didn't sin because greed doesn't mean a sin" to now "heaven is not perfect, who told you that"?