The existence of Satan makes no sense.

[fcisd]

The difference between the saints and angels is that angels aren't human. Coupled with the fact that they were also born into grace unlike the saints, they have a very different nature.

Contrary to what people tend to think, the angels don't necessarily represent a 'hierarchy'. They are more like a 'semi-hierarchy' with simply different roles.
But Satan was nonetheless the highest which undoubtedly is in some way a factor to his fall. The Bible, particularly with Ezekiel and Isaiah, puts him on a remarkable pedestal and then crumbles it to illustrate this.

You've explained what angels are -their difference in beings from us- and why they can't be forgiven but it still raises that question: how do we know that the other Angels like Michael are still up there? I do't see how these differences between us and angels answers the question about being capable of sinning. If the highest Angel can sin then what more for the ones lower than him?

Are you saying only Angels are capable of sinning in heaven because they are born in grace while humans aren't? This is not fully agreed on because Catholics do believe that Mary was born and given full grace.

 

[fcisd]

God is in charge of heaven, His throne, but Adam was in charge of the earth, he had dominion on the earth

God did not sin, Adam did.

Duh!

Ok, these are simple but good answers. The question of "Why didn't heaven change" was answered by This Charming Manc, The Crucible, and you. So now I can move on to the second part which is the assumption of angels/saints still being in heaven.

 

[CherubRam]

This is a small part of a much larger study of these topics.

Sorry, but I can not find anything nice to say about your logic.

 

[Crucible]

You've explained what angels are -their difference in beings from us- and why they can't be forgiven but it still raises that question: how do we know that the other Angels like Michael are still up there? I do't see how these differences between us and angels answers the question about being capable of sinning. If the highest Angel can sin then what more for the ones lower than him?

Are you saying only Angels are capable of sinning in heaven because they are born in grace while humans aren't? This is not fully agreed on because Catholics do believe that Mary was born and given full grace.

The Apocalypse of John seems to hint out that a third of the angels followed Lucifer- another sign that he was the most authoritative. Other angels saw that he had been cursed and rebelled.

Protestants go in for the Virgin Mary, but they don't necessarily go in for the Sinless Mary. Many see conflict with that, including myself actually.
It's in my opinion that the Catholic and Orthodox churches utilized Mary to swoon men further to Christianity.

But that's another subject, I suppose.
John Calvin, one of the two founders of the Reformation, proposed a notion of 'irresistible grace' which means that for those humans who are of the elect are unable to resist God. It's an idea of predestination, which also ultimately supposes that Satan was created with an innate enmity to serve a certain purpose for mankind.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Rev 12:7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

If this is not the first sin and the war against it, then a sinner did invade heaven as this war was in heaven. Where was your supposed first sin and how did they then invade heaven?

The sin wasn't in heaven. It was on earth.

 

[Caino]

The sin wasn't in heaven. It was on earth.

The "war in heaven" was an ideological struggle; Gods will or self rule. Good verses evil-sin.The dragon rebelled against faith in the unseen Father. He obviously knows his creator Christ Michael, aka Jesus of Nazareth, but the Sons teaching of, and dedication to, the rule of the Universal Father, was still a matter of faith for celestials such as Satan. The sin and the war was in the celestial realm. It eventually effected our world because Lucifer, Satan and the Prince had been given trusted positions of leadership to rule in the spiritual realm under the authority of the Son.

The war was won by the triumphant, God revealing life of the Son incarnate on earth. All the rebels have been taken into custody.

 

[Interplanner]

The sin wasn't in heaven. It was on earth.

Not in that passage.

 

[serpentdove]

When someone has to resort to trolling, and still criticize someone's Christian life...

:yawn: You are linger: not a Christian (2 Pe 2:1). :dizzy: No, we don't want your sin in heaven, too. God keeps our forever home pure (1 Pe 1:23).

Keep blaming Adam. See how that works out for you. opcorn: The courageous go on to heaven (Re 1:28). :mario:

 

[serpentdove]

So God created the Devil, a experiment gone awry!

God made everything with him (his light, breath, word), and out and of darkness (void, vacuum, absence)...

Not to mention clown boots here who wouldn't exist had his :freak: experiment not

gone awry. Did he think Satan would one-up God? Did he think God would pick up his marbles and go home? :dizzy: A redeemed world :listen: is better than a world that never fell in the first.

So choice. Is 65:17

 

[jamie]

You've explained what angels are -their difference in beings from us- and why they can't be forgiven...

Everyone in heaven and earth was reconciled to the Most High God through the blood of Jesus (Colossians 1:20).

We will judge the disobedient angels with regard to their continued existence (1 Corinthians 6:3).