toldailytopic: What will 4 more years of Obama mean for this country?

[Alate_One]

Wait, what?
You people talk out both sides of your mouth, you say people are dieing from lack of health care and here you say that people were getting free health care before? Which is it?

It's both. Can't understand how that's not contradictory?

People show up half dead to the emergency room where they're required to at least be stabilized (due to a law Reagan passed). This results in HUGE amounts of money being spent which the hospital has to eat if the sick person can't pay. And they probably can't which is why they delayed going in the first place. Problem is waiting until you're half dead raises the chances that you'll die anyway or have a long term problem that can't be fixed in an emergency room.

Basically the US system is the worst of all worlds. It's expensive because we only pay for people that are very sick and then a lot of those people have poor health outcomes because they waited too long. Instead of getting problems caught early and cheaply, we pay through the nose for them. It's great if you're super rich since you can travel the country and buy the best doctors and care. But if you're poor (especially if you make too much money for medicare but can't afford insurance) it's terrible.

Obamacare only partly fixes these problems but it's certainly better than what we have been doing.

 

[The Berean]

Except it doesn't reflect population at all.

This one is from 2008 but it's distorted based on population

Population centers tend to vote democratic. It's rural voters that vote Republican and the rural population has been declining.

That actually looks like your avatar, Alate_One.

 

[bybee]

That actually looks like your avatar, Alate_One.

It does!:crackup:

 

[eameece]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 7th, 2012 12:16 AM

toldailytopic: What will 4 more years of Obama mean for this country?

The people voted more-or-less for the status quo, even though they think the country is headed in the wrong direction. Go figure. From my point of view, if they wanted anything different, they would have voted out the extremist lunatics from the House that almost sent our country into default and would destroy our environment at the drop of a hat. If Obama wanted do accomplish anything, he would have campaigned against them. He didn't, and they didn't; so we're stuck with more stalemate and frustration and very little accomplished in the next 4 years.

 

[rocketman]

so we're stuck with more stalemate and frustration and very little accomplished in the next 4 years.

Which may be a good thing...

 

[drbrumley]

People show up half dead to the emergency room where they're required to at least be stabilized (due to a law Reagan passed). This results in HUGE amounts of money being spent which the hospital has to eat if the sick person can't pay.

Again, maybe you haven't seen your credit file for some time.

Here is how it works. A man comes into the hospital and gets treated. A bill incurs. When that bill is not payed, it goes to a bill collector. It is then reported to the credit agencies. If that doesn't work, it gets sold, just like a mortgage. And it stays on your report till payed. That means you will have a harder time getting a loan. That is called a writeoff. Even though it isn't. The hospitals holds the note and gets paid till they sell it. The hospitals will make their money on the note. Maybe not as much as if the man just paid it outright, but they still profit. Healthcare is a good, not a right!

 

[eameece]

You beat me to it. Your the man Wiz!!!!:up:

Medical care costs way too much because it is left to the capitalist insurance companies to do it, not because the government makes it cost more.

 

[drbrumley]

Medical care costs way too much because it is left to the capitalist insurance companies to do it, not because the government makes it cost more.

Sorry bucko, government involvement is what is driving prices up. The hospitals and Drs can charge whatever they want cause they know government will pay it and also the insurance companies thru negotiations.

 

[eameece]

Which may be a good thing...

From your point of view, not from mine.

 

[drbrumley]

From your point of view, not from mine.

And therein lies the rub........you are within your right to feel that way. But you have NO RIGHT to take from another to pay for you. Which in essense is what Congress and this government has done forever.

 

[eameece]

Sorry bucko, government involvement is what is driving prices up. The hospitals and Drs can charge whatever they want cause they know government will pay it and also the insurance companies thru negotiations.

No, wrong bucko. Medicare brings costs down because doctors have to deliver at the lower prices required. That is real "competition," and we'd have more if we got the "public option." Medicare does not pay "whatever" the doctors and hospitals "want." And under Obamacare the insurance companies have to give refunds if they charge too much, and this is happening. With the mandate, costs are spread among more people and prices will go down. Insurance companies are a needless middleman, and they are the ones who drive costs up, because they charge astronomical amounts. Only the wealthy can afford it, and it costs business horrendous amounts of money to pay these inflated premiums. And they kick people off who need the care. Everyone who pays premiums then have to cover all those who can't afford it or who get kicked off.

If you want medical care to get less expensive and more effective, do what Obamacare does and cover preventive care, and extend that to holistic methods too. Alate was exactly correct; right now we spend too much at the end of life, and for those already too sick. If people had access throughout their lives, the costs would go down.

And Medicare is paid for now by a small tax that covers the sickest people in the country, the most expensive people to cover. Imagine how much better it would be if we all paid a higher payroll tax (and extended that tax to others who don't work but just gamble and speculate), but this tax also covered younger people who don't need to go to the doctor or hospital very often, and got preventive and holistic care.

 

[rocketman]

From your point of view, not from mine.

I would expect nothing less...:chuckle:

 

[drbrumley]

No, wrong bucko. Medicare brings costs down because doctors have to deliver at the lower prices required. That is real "competition," and we'd have more if we got the "public option." Medicare does not pay "whatever" the doctors and hospitals "want." And under Obamacare the insurance companies have to give refunds if they charge too much, and this is happening. With the mandate, costs are spread among more people and prices will go down. Insurance companies are a needless middleman, and they are the ones who drive costs up, because they charge astronomical amounts. Only the wealthy can afford it, and it costs business horrendous amounts of money to pay these inflated premiums. And they kick people off who need the care.

And that in of itself is wrong Bucko. No one has the right or authority to dictate price controls.

Secondly, Medicare and Medicaid are done thru negotiation, just as the insurance companies do it. That does not prevent a $100 dr visit now does it? I will answer for you, No it doesn't. That does not prevent hospitals from charging $300 for an emergency room visit.

But alas, like Dr Paul noted rightfully, inflation is another main culprit in this. It says something when the value of your money is down over 95% since 1913.

 

[eameece]

And therein lies the rub........you are within your right to feel that way. But you have NO RIGHT to take from another to pay for you. Which in essense is what Congress and this government has done forever.

I don't have the right to steal your money personally. But YES IS DO have the right to vote for congress to tax you. And I do so with pleasure, especially when I know it is making people like you have to pay more taxes!!! :banana:

 

[drbrumley]

I don't have the right to steal your money personally. But YES IS DO have the right to vote for congress to tax you. And I do so with pleasure, especially when I know it is making people like you have to pay more taxes!!! :banana:

While you probably make more than me and don't pay any tax yourself. :loser:

I wish other people didn't have your sorry attitude back in the day to make you such a sourpuss that you feel the need to cause pain on other people. :loser:

 

[eameece]

And that in of itself is wrong Bucko. No one has the right or authority to dictate price controls.

I think Medicare has the right to set prices for the services it pays for, and charges premiums for. Call it what you like.

Secondly, Medicare and Medicaid are done thru negotiation, just as the insurance companies do it. That does not prevent a $100 dr visit now does it? I will answer for you, No it doesn't. That does not prevent hospitals from charging $300 for an emergency room visit.

Yes in fact it does bring prices down. Maybe not enough, but the other factors I mentioned also need to be dealt with.

But alas, like Dr Paul noted rightfully, inflation is another main culprit in this. It says something when the value of your money is down over 95% since 1913.

Inflation I'm sure he blames on the Federal Reserve. Inflation in health care costs have been vastly higher than inflation generally, which is almost zero now in a bad economy. Health care costs have risen because doctors and insurance have been allowed to charge too much. It is good that insurance companies must now pay refunds for over-charging, and there should be more regulation of prices. Not necessarily specific controls, but sensible monitoring and intervention when needed to keep costs to what the providers actually need. And to require them to cover preventive and holistic care so that costs for treating older sick people go down.

It should not be "left to the market." The market is and has never been "free." Prices now are set by big conglomerates in order to amass huge profits from people who have to pay the bills or die. That is what drives up costs.

 

[eameece]

While you probably make more than me and don't pay any tax yourself. :loser:

I wish other people didn't have your sorry attitude back in the day to make you such a sourpuss that you feel the need to cause pain on other people. :loser:

Hey, if I can make things more painful for a sourpuss like you, who hates helping others and wants to keep all his money to himself, then I am happy! :cloud9:

 

[eameece]

The middle class numbers will continue to dwindle as we creep closer to becoming a society made up of the, "very rich, and the very poor" with nothing in between!!

Which is directly caused by people who say and believe slogans like:

More people will become dependent on the government to keep them afloat!!

 

[eameece]

Excellent post Bybee!! The "libs" are giddy and full of themselves at this moment! Socialism has another 4 year's to triumph!!!!!!!

How can it triumph when the reactionary fascists control the purse strings? At least congratulate yourselves on your partial victory!

 

[drbrumley]

Hey, if I can make things more painful for a sourpuss like you, who hates helping others and wants to keep all his money to himself, then I am happy! :cloud9:

Wow! I make maybe 10 grand a year and in fact help people with what I can but typical of Marxists like yourself, it is never enough. :loser: