Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[JudgeRightly]

Anyone who says Jesus is not God must ask themselves how it is that Jesus not being God is sitting on the throne of God.

The trinitarian doctrine is false and cannot be explained; that is even what the scholars of the trinity doctrine say.

If it cannot be explained it cannot be defended.

The trinitarians try to defend it by switching the people in the 'trinity' at will. When scripture proves their doctrine false, the trinitarian will say oh that was the Father, or that was the Son, or that was all of them.

God the Father doesn't need a Son to be God. He is God. He came as a Son.

Where is Jesus' 'man spirit' if his spirit is not the Father's?

That would make more than one divine Spirit when the Bible says only one.

"Trinity doctrine cannot be explained."

Um, it already has been explained, and it can even be defended with Scripture.

THREE QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE IF THE TRINITY IS BIBLICALLY TRUE OR FALSE. If any one of these questions can be answered 'no,' then the Trinity can be rejected as an unbiblical belief. But if all three can be answered 'yes,' then the concept of the Trinity can be accepted as true. 1. Does the Bible mention three distinct persons? 2. Does the Bible refer to each of these persons as God? 3. Does the Bible teach there is only one God? The answers: 1. Are three distinct persons mentioned? YES. A. The Father (1 John 3:1) B. The Son (1 John 1:3) C. The Holy Spirit (John 14:6; 14:26; 15:26; 16:13-14; Romans 15:30; Ephesians 4:30) 2. Are each of these persons referred to as God? YES. A. God the Father (1 Thessalonians 1:1) B. God the Son (John 1:1; 20:28; Hebrews 1:8-9) C. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) 3. Is there only one God? YES. (see Deuteronomy 4:35-39; Psalm 86:10; Isaiah 45:5; 45:22)

 

[glorydaz]

We've played this game....

GOD made him in HIS image and likeness. That in no way means that GOD is fashioned after a person or that Adam evolved from GOD who is a person. The likeness is the Spirit and the image is the reflection of the glory of GOD by following that Spirit.

Is there an interpreter in the house? :chuckle:


One that can interpret for this natural man of the flesh?

 

[drbrumley]

Micah 5:2:
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from EVERLASTING!!!!

 

[popsthebuilder]

It will do you no good, but lots of people do it. It makes them feel special, I would imagine.


In short...it gives you something to boast over.

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.​

I don't boast for good reason, and consider myself lower than others and never above or better than any.

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[popsthebuilder]

Pretending, of course, that it's his motives that are impure. :chuckle:

I just said out right that my own motives weren't the purest while I was being will fully contentious, so what is your point?

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[popsthebuilder]

And yet somehow you couldn't figure out how to play.



I just did, and this is where it ended up, with me repeating my question because it wasn't answered.



And here I am trying to be logical about this topic.



Good, I'm glad we established that.



Where have I ever said that God was fashioned after a man?

My SECOND question was this:

If so (if Adam was a person, and you have agreed with me that he was), Where did his (Adam's) person-hood come from?

How you get "God is fashioned after man" out of that is beyond me.

So here is the question again, Pops, because twisting what I say means you didn't understand what I said:

Pops, Where did Adam get his person-hood from?



You're getting ahead of me Pops, and by doing that, you're guaranteeing that you won't be able to follow my line of reasoning.



I have no idea what you just said here, but I'm pretty sure it's an attempt to get ahead of my argument. And because of that, I don't really care what you meant to say. Stick with the question I asked you above: Where did Adam get his person-hood?

Define person hood

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[6days]

so its not possible the Father created the Son?

Impossible unless you reject Scripture. God's Word tells us...
New International Version
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

New Living Translation
for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see--such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.

English Standard Version
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Berean Study Bible
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Berean Literal Bible
because in Him were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him.

New American Standard Bible
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

King James Bible
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Christian Standard Bible
For everything was created by him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through him and for him.

Contemporary English Version
Everything was created by him, everything in heaven and on earth, everything seen and unseen, including all forces and powers, and all rulers and authorities. All things were created by God's Son, and everything was made for him.

Good News Translation
For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

International Standard Version
For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him.

NET Bible
for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him--all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers--all things were created through him and for him.

New Heart English Bible
For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers; all things have been created by him and for him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
By him was everything created which is in Heaven and in The Earth: everything that is seen and everything that is unseen, whether Thrones or Dominions or Principalities or Rulers; everything has been created by his hand and in him.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He created all things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Whether they are kings or lords, rulers or powers- everything has been created through him and for him.

New American Standard 1977
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him.

Jubilee Bible 2000
for by him were all things created, that are in the heavens and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they are thrones or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by him and in him;

King James 2000 Bible
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

American King James Version
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

American Standard Version
for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

Douay-Rheims Bible
For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him.

Darby Bible Translation
because by him were created all things, the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or principalities, or authorities: all things have been created by him and for him.

English Revised Version
for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

Webster's Bible Translation
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are upon earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Weymouth New Testament
For in Him was created the universe of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, thrones, dominions, princedoms, powers--all were created, and exist through and for Him.

World English Bible
For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.

Young's Literal Translation
because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities,

 

[meshak]

I don't boast for good reason, and consider myself lower than others and never above or better than any.

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They claim to be saved and you don't. yet they tell you you are the boaster.

what a world.

 

[God's Truth]

My soul is not in danger. I have been washed, sanctified and justified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. I worship Him as my Lord and my God, and have full assurance of salvation.

What's sad is that you could have that same peace that passes "your" understanding, but your denial of our Creator and Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, leaves you in a horrible place of darkness...blind to the gospel of salvation.

Think about it more...you preach that Jesus' words while he walked the earth were only for the Jews and not for the Gentiles to obey. Who but Satan would like that doctrine taught? Your doctrine also makes Paul cursing himself and is a hypocrite by preaching another gospel. Satan would like that to hear Paul slandered in such a way. You hinder people from being saved by saying we don't have to do anything but believe, even though Paul says have faith and repent. You change the word 'repent' to mean change your mind about God and you leave out the repent of sin part.

You say people will do good after they are saved, or not, and that it has nothing to do with being saved. But you are wrong. Jesus' words are Spirit and life. He is the Lord over all. If you do not do what Jesus says, then you miss out on understanding, knowledge, wisdom, and having Jesus revealed to you. If a person does not obey Jesus, they do not receive the Spirit and life.

 

[meshak]

Impossible unless you reject Scripture. God's Word tells us...
New International Version
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

New Living Translation
for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see--such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.

English Standard Version
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Berean Study Bible
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Berean Literal Bible
because in Him were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him.

New American Standard Bible
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

King James Bible
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Christian Standard Bible
For everything was created by him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through him and for him.

Contemporary English Version
Everything was created by him, everything in heaven and on earth, everything seen and unseen, including all forces and powers, and all rulers and authorities. All things were created by God's Son, and everything was made for him.

Good News Translation
For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created through Him and for Him.

International Standard Version
For by him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether they are kings, lords, rulers, or powers. All things have been created through him and for him.

NET Bible
for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him--all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers--all things were created through him and for him.

New Heart English Bible
For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers; all things have been created by him and for him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
By him was everything created which is in Heaven and in The Earth: everything that is seen and everything that is unseen, whether Thrones or Dominions or Principalities or Rulers; everything has been created by his hand and in him.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He created all things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Whether they are kings or lords, rulers or powers- everything has been created through him and for him.

New American Standard 1977
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him.

Jubilee Bible 2000
for by him were all things created, that are in the heavens and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they are thrones or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by him and in him;

King James 2000 Bible
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

American King James Version
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

American Standard Version
for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

Douay-Rheims Bible
For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him.

Darby Bible Translation
because by him were created all things, the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or principalities, or authorities: all things have been created by him and for him.

English Revised Version
for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

Webster's Bible Translation
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are upon earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Weymouth New Testament
For in Him was created the universe of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, thrones, dominions, princedoms, powers--all were created, and exist through and for Him.

World English Bible
For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.

Young's Literal Translation
because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities,

You are still disregarding the fact that Jesus was given the power to create by His Father.

 

[drbrumley]

They claim to be saved

:mock: Meshak

We just believe God and His word..:loser:

 

[drbrumley]

You are still disregarding the fact that Jesus was given the power to create by His Father.

Cite?

 

[God's Truth]

I just said out right that my own motives weren't the purest while I was being will fully contentious, so what is your point?

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You sound as if you are saying you lie. Who should ever believe a liar again? Jesus says liars will not inherit the kingdom and that Satan is their father.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Define person hood

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You don't know what a person is?

I thought you knew, since you answered my first question of, "was Adam a person."...

So much for that...

A person is a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness, and being a part of a culturally established form of social relations such as kinship, ownership of property, or legal responsibility.

Personhood is having the qualities/attributes of a person

So let's start again.

Pops:

Was Adam a person?

 

[glorydaz]

The fact that he has one is all I need to know.

He's invisible, remember?

 

[God's Truth]

They claim to be saved and you don't. yet they tell you you are the boaster.

what a world.

If you don't know you are saved, then you are not. That is what the Bible says.

 

[6days]

Yes, The Father is the source of all creation inducing His Son, Jesus.

Glorydayz answered.

Jesus is the first born of all creation.

Yes...He is! All created things were made by Him.

 

[6days]

You are still disregarding the fact that Jesus was given the power to create by His Father.

I think you missed the point... If ALL created things were made by The Son... then He could not have made Himself. Our Creator was not created.

 

[God's Truth]

"Trinity doctrine cannot be explained."

Um, it already has been explained, and it can even be defended with Scripture.

THREE QUESTIONS TO DETERMINE IF THE TRINITY IS BIBLICALLY TRUE OR FALSE. If any one of these questions can be answered 'no,' then the Trinity can be rejected as an unbiblical belief. But if all three can be answered 'yes,' then the concept of the Trinity can be accepted as true. 1. Does the Bible mention three distinct persons? 2. Does the Bible refer to each of these persons as God? 3. Does the Bible teach there is only one God? The answers: 1. Are three distinct persons mentioned? YES. A. The Father (1 John 3:1) B. The Son (1 John 1:3) C. The Holy Spirit (John 14:6; 14:26; 15:26; 16:13-14; Romans 15:30; Ephesians 4:30) 2. Are each of these persons referred to as God? YES. A. God the Father (1 Thessalonians 1:1) B. God the Son (John 1:1; 20:28; Hebrews 1:8-9) C. God the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) 3. Is there only one God? YES. (see Deuteronomy 4:35-39; Psalm 86:10; Isaiah 45:5; 45:22)

I have already answered in detail your little questionnaire.

That questionnaire is geared towards those who don't believe Jesus is God.

Jesus is God and you don't know how to go against my teachings any other way, except for rudeness.

 

[glorydaz]

Think about it more...you preach that Jesus' words while he walked the earth were only for the Jews and not for the Gentiles to obey. Who but Satan would like that doctrine taught? Your doctrine also makes Paul cursing himself and is a hypocrite by preaching another gospel. Satan would like that to hear Paul slandered in such a way. You hinder people from being saved by saying we don't have to do anything but believe, even though Paul says have faith and repent. You change the word 'repent' to mean change your mind about God and you leave out the repent of sin part.

You say people will do good after they are saved, or not, and that it has nothing to do with being saved. But you are wrong. Jesus' words are Spirit and life. He is the Lord over all. If you do not do what Jesus says, then you miss out on understanding, knowledge, wisdom, and having Jesus revealed to you. If a person does not obey Jesus, they do not receive the Spirit and life.

Don't try to tell me what I preach. You can't even get the first sentence correct. :dunce:


You have no ears to hear the Truth, period. Which is why you distort and manipulate Scripture to your own destruction...and the destruction of all who heed what you say.