ECT As many people doubt the scripture regarding speaking in tongues:

[kayaker]

We all seem to agree the Gentiles were the primary target of Paul. Wasn't Paul fluent in more than one language? How fluent were Jesus' disciples? Tossing those questions on the table... how was the Word to be shared with the Gentiles? And, this brings up a fundamental point that truly escapes the masses. What is the OT origin of the Gentiles?

The Gentiles were NOT simply non-Jews as the disillusioned, uninspired 'Jews' project in their ancestral arrogance. The Gentiles were the descendants of Japheth, son of Noah, not discerned in all translations, btw. Take a listen in Genesis when the title "Gentiles" was first used: Genesis 9:27 KJV, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5. Japheth was the 'father' of the Gentiles, while the Israelites paternally descended from Shem, father of the God's chosen Shemites/Semites/Israelites (Luke 3:38, 37, 36, Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9)... Japheth was the 'father' of the Gentiles to my rendering, unless someone can Scripturally support another origin in Genesis. Shem was the father of the Shemites/Semites/Israelites.

Once this ancestral notion of the OT origin of the Gentiles is appreciated, then the necessity of Pentecost becomes evident in my simple mind:

Genesis 10:5 KJV "By these (descendants of Japheth) were the isles of the GENTILES divided in their lands; AND EVERY ONE AFTER HIS OWN TONGUE, after their families, in their nations."

Please forgive my feeble rendering; but, it sounds to me like bringing the GENTILES into the fold, hearing the WORD, involved language translation. Hence: Pentecost. Wasn't Paul more fluent that Jesus' disciples? So, if the Gentiles were present at Pentecost, Jesus' disciples were embraced by the Holy Spirit translating/interpreting the message of Jesus' disciples. There was a language barrier that was miraculously overcome by the Holy Spirit.

kayaker

 

[kayaker]

PS: THAT's a miracle, Oatmeal!

 

[Cross Reference]

I don't catch your drift, CR? Doesn't sound like a translator was needed though, or an interpreter, for that matter. The speaker spoke, and the recipient heard in their native tongue.

Thanks correct. He wasn't needed. The Holy Spirit works as He wills and violates nothing in the process.
Having said that, how else would the recipient of the gift of interpretation find out? Do you think the Holy Spirit would first announce it to the congregation?

 

[Cross Reference]

Speaking in tongues is not a gift.

It is one way of manifesting the gift of eternal life/holy spirit/salvation.

I Corinthians 12:7-11

It is a gift. What you have is NOT of the Holy Spirit. What you say is of anti-Christ.

 

[oatmeal]

It is a gift. What you have is NOT of the Holy Spirit. What you say is of anti-Christ.

Show me where in scripture it is referred to as a gift.

I Corinthians 12:1 ?

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

gifts, being in italics in the KJV show that that word was added by the translators. the Greek word is pneumatikos, things pertaining to the spirit or spiritual matters

Put up or shut up.

 

[oatmeal]

More Oprah, stock cliches, from another Christ rejector, as TOL laughs at you, in your attempts to be oh so "reflective," and "sweet," and "genuine," and a "wise counselor." The devil taught you that schtick.

Laugh on.

Your opinions are worthless

 

[oatmeal]

We all seem to agree the Gentiles were the primary target of Paul. Wasn't Paul fluent in more than one language? How fluent were Jesus' disciples? Tossing those questions on the table... how was the Word to be shared with the Gentiles? And, this brings up a fundamental point that truly escapes the masses. What is the OT origin of the Gentiles?

The Gentiles were NOT simply non-Jews as the disillusioned, uninspired 'Jews' project in their ancestral arrogance. The Gentiles were the descendants of Japheth, son of Noah, not discerned in all translations, btw. Take a listen in Genesis when the title "Gentiles" was first used: Genesis 9:27 KJV, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5. Japheth was the 'father' of the Gentiles, while the Israelites paternally descended from Shem, father of the God's chosen Shemites/Semites/Israelites (Luke 3:38, 37, 36, Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9)... Japheth was the 'father' of the Gentiles to my rendering, unless someone can Scripturally support another origin in Genesis. Shem was the father of the Shemites/Semites/Israelites.

Once this ancestral notion of the OT origin of the Gentiles is appreciated, then the necessity of Pentecost becomes evident in my simple mind:

Genesis 10:5 KJV "By these (descendants of Japheth) were the isles of the GENTILES divided in their lands; AND EVERY ONE AFTER HIS OWN TONGUE, after their families, in their nations."

Please forgive my feeble rendering; but, it sounds to me like bringing the GENTILES into the fold, hearing the WORD, involved language translation. Hence: Pentecost. Wasn't Paul more fluent that Jesus' disciples? So, if the Gentiles were present at Pentecost, Jesus' disciples were embraced by the Holy Spirit translating/interpreting the message of Jesus' disciples. There was a language barrier that was miraculously overcome by the Holy Spirit.

kayaker

Much like Europe and the middle east today, most people spoke more than one language, Greek being a popular second language, for it enable many to communicate well with many other Gentiles.

Why do we not see scripture teaching us to speak in tongues in foreign countries so that they can turn to God?

Because that is not the purpose of speaking in tongues

It is proof that is it the language of men I Corinthians 13:1

 

[Nick M]

It's a negative sign to unbelievers because they can't understand foreign tongues

Acts 2

8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

 

[john w]

Laugh on.

Your opinions are worthless

No, you are the Oprah of TOL, Christ rejector-opinions, about opinions, and disingenuous psycho babble. Your father, the devil, the "great" Imitator, taught you well.

 

[musterion]

Speaking in tongues is not a gift.

Wow.

 

[musterion]

Acts 2

8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

Andy should be on TBN. He just makes it up as he goes along, like they do.

 

[Cross Reference]

Show me where in scripture it is referred to as a gift.

I Corinthians 12:1 ?

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

gifts, being in italics in the KJV show that that word was added by the translators. the Greek word is pneumatikos, things pertaining to the spirit or spiritual matters

Put up or shut up.

How 'bout naming the gifts? Put up or shut up!

 

[kayaker]

Agreed, Acts 2 was a miracle... one of the nine, as you suggest, if I understand you, correctly. Furthermore, most tongue speakers refer to 1Corinthians. Then, let's back up and discern who those Corinthians were. Once appreciated the Gentiles were descendants of Japheth, who walked into Noah's tent covered and backwards (Genesis 9:23 KJV), then one appreciates what Paul was saying to the Corinthians in 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV becomes quite evident in my feeble mind, associating Genesis 9:22 KJV with Leviticus 18:8 KJV, Leviticus 20:11 KJV, Deuteronomy 22:30 KJV, and Deuteronomy 27:20 KJV... that all but totally escapes the multitude.

Those Corinthians were both progeny thereof, and participants in said fornication (1Corinthians 5:1 KJV), contrary to Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Can you fathom there are heritable risks associated with inbreeding? Might you consider then Jesus' miracles substantially impacted heritable illnesses illuminated in both John 9:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, even the lame man in Acts 3:2 KJV that Peter healed? What were the "sins" of those Jesus healed, then? Those ancestral sins, as Paul illuminated in 1Chronicles 5:1, had certain physical manifestations in the flesh descendants of such abomination. Hence: John 8:15 KJV. The notion of EXCLUSION from the Kingdom was falsely derived from Leviticus 21:17 KJV, Leviticus 21:18 KJV, Leviticus 21:19 KJV, Leviticus 21:20 KJV, Leviticus 21:21 KJV, Leviticus 21:22 KJV, Leviticus 21:23 KJV, Leviticus 21:24 KJV.

May I remind you again to reconsider Jesus' words to those plotting His crucifixion (John 8:37 KJV) spoken in John 8:15 KJV. This bears reflection further in John 8:46 KJV being Jesus was without PHYSICAL spot or blemish noted in the aforementioned verses in Leviticus 21. Can you fathom the notion, since Jesus healed those physically afflicted by ancestral sins, that said progeny would NOT be excluded from hearing His Word, or from being members of churches? Then, I suggest you consider the distinctly heritable, genetic implications in Asperger's syndrome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdSzM3MHfOA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdSzM3MHfOA

Neither Jesus, nor Paul, nor any of Jesus' disciples would have excluded folk with heritable hemophilia, heritable leprosy, heritable blindness, or heritable Asperger's syndrome. Having been a non-tongues member of a Pentecostal church in my past... I'm quite familiar with such in that arena, which you appear to simply be describing a new and improved version. Take a look at this quote that remarkably parallels the Pentecostal behavior when 'slain in the spirit' with Asperger's syndrome (AS):

Evidence of frontal lobe dysfunction in AS is suggested by repetitive, aimless movements and speech, lack of insight, social isolation, shallow or flat affect, and lack of appreciation for social rules, as well as communication difficulties.9 In addition, Ozonoff et al2 found that subjects with AS performed significantly more poorly on tests of executive function than those with high-functioning autism (HFA). Abnormalities in the limbic system and related structures have been theorized to contribute to AS as well and could account for the impairment in social functioning and imaginative play.24

http://journals.lww.com/jrnldbp/Abs...airment_in_Asperger_Syndrome__Evidence.2.aspx

I proffer Paul, familiar with ancestral abominations and the heritable consequences thereof, encountered many cases of heritable Asperger's syndrome among the Corinthians (1Corinthians 5:1 KJV). None of Jesus' followers would have excluded an Asperger's syndrome individual or Lepers as WOULD HAVE the ancestrally arrogant Pharisees from the synagogues (John 8:15 KJV). And, I proffer Paul's later mention in 1Corinthians addressed the needs of victims of heritable Asperger's syndrome. Just because a person had expressive aphasia, being unable to effectively communicate verbally, didn't mean their mumbled prayers were not heard, and didn't mean their mumbled words were of no significance.

I throw this notion on the table from a totally different perspective, Oatmeal. I'm not suggesting you would deny an AS individual from your church. I do suggest mimicking the worship of an expressive aphasia member, negatively impacted by heritable communication disorders, is to no avail, as Paul was affirming acceptance later on in 1Corinthians.

kayaker

 

[Cross Reference]

Agreed, Acts 2 was a miracle... one of the nine, as you suggest, if I understand you, correctly. Furthermore, most tongue speakers refer to 1Corinthians. Then, let's back up and discern who those Corinthians were. Once appreciated the Gentiles were descendants of Japheth, who wa
kayaker

It's irrelevant except as an excuse for unbelief, which you are full of.

Since oatmush is suddenly silent on the subject he mocks, perhaps you might name the nine gifts?

 

[kayaker]

It's irrelevant except as an excuse for unbelief, which you are full of.

Since oatmush is suddenly silent on the subject he mocks, perhaps you might name the nine gifts?

Unbelief in what particularly, CR? Acts 2 was a miracle, do you believe this? Perhaps when you start verbally translating sign language in a hearing impaired church, for those of us attending who are hearing and not sign-fluent... then, I would give credence to your notion of tongue, rather hand-speaking. As far as I'm concerned, you folk are simply getting your spiritual jolly's mimicking the Biblical worship by those afflicted with heritable communication disorders. The nine gifts are quite a diversionary issue, if I spoke out of turn.

Folk with heritable cystic fibrosis worship, also. But, that doesn't mean we need to be stricken with cystic fibrosis to worship... even when the pastor is so afflicted.

kayaker

 

[Cross Reference]

Unbelief in what particularly, CR? Acts 2 was a miracle, do you believe this? Perhaps when you start verbally translating sign language in a hearing impaired church, for those of us attending who are hearing and not sign-fluent... then, I would give credence to your notion of tongue, rather hand-speaking. As far as I'm concerned, you folk are simply getting your spiritual jolly's mimicking the Biblical worship by those afflicted with heritable communication disorders. The nine gifts are quite a diversionary issue, if I spoke out of turn.

Folk with heritable cystic fibrosis worship, also. But, that doesn't mean we need to be stricken with cystic fibrosis to worship... even when the pastor is so afflicted.

kayaker

. . . you speak in riddles

 

[Word based mystic]

the very foundation and basics of the normal christian life is supernatural in nature.

firstly. christians/born again people are Born again (spiritually)

understanding the scriptures is not a solely mental process
it is a Holy Spirit process.

We as born again are described as a (new creation/creature) in Christ.

Communion with the Holy Spirit is not carnal but supernaturally empowered.

comprehending the Love of God ephesians 3:16-19 describes a spiritual empowerment.

seeing the kingdom and entering the kingdom comes from the born again experience.
1 cor:14:4
praying, edification and communion is spiritually empowered
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

dismissing one expression of the Holy Spirit dismisses them all.

forbid not anyone to speak in tongues.

I personally have spoke in both types of tongues.
1 that indigenous person understood my english speaking in his language.
2 . 1 cor 14:15
What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
praying and singing is physical expression of our spirit When led by the Holy Spirit.
1 cor 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

our life if we are walking in the Spirit is supernatural.
His Spirit was given to us to facilitate the miraculous and supernatural.

you may walk in your carnal, only mental, fleshly, philosophical ways. But it is the Spirit that empowers a christian to live a righteous and empowered life.

fully preaching the gospel is both through word and power.

romans 15:19 by word and deed, in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have (((fully))) preached the gospel of Christ.

 

[kayaker]

. . . you speak in riddles

ROFLOL! Not tongues? Possibly another poster can translate for me. Have you ever seen a severely afflicted Asperger's victim worship? Neither have I, but I have seen a cognitively impaired individual that needed a little support to not disrupt the service. Have you ever been distracted by an infant crying or babbling in church? Can an infant possess the Holy Spirit? But, I propose Asperger worship would present much like what you subscribe to in your church... and, I cast no negative light in the worship of severely afflicted Asperger's folk. I do proffer what you propose makes a mockery of the worship by those afflicted with heritable communication disorders... they walk in the door speaking in tongues. I don't have to be afflicted with Leprosy to know Jesus healed such, and I don't have to mimic the worship of those impacted by communication disorders to be inspired.

kayaker

 

[kayaker]

the very foundation and basics of the normal christian life is supernatural in nature.

firstly. christians/born again people are Born again (spiritually)

understanding the scriptures is not a solely mental process
it is a Holy Spirit process.

We as born again are described as a (new creation/creature) in Christ.

Communion with the Holy Spirit is not carnal but supernaturally empowered.

comprehending the Love of God ephesians 3:16-19 describes a spiritual empowerment.

seeing the kingdom and entering the kingdom comes from the born again experience.
1 cor:14:4
praying, edification and communion is spiritually empowered
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

dismissing one expression of the Holy Spirit dismisses them all.

forbid not anyone to speak in tongues.

I personally have spoke in both types of tongues.
1 that indigenous person understood my english speaking in his language.
2 . 1 cor 14:15
What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
praying and singing is physical expression of our spirit When led by the Holy Spirit.
1 cor 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

our life if we are walking in the Spirit is supernatural.
His Spirit was given to us to facilitate the miraculous and supernatural.

you may walk in your carnal, only mental, fleshly, philosophical ways. But it is the Spirit that empowers a christian to live a righteous and empowered life.

fully preaching the gospel is both through word and power.

romans 15:19 by word and deed, in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit; so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have (((fully))) preached the gospel of Christ.

Ever come up with those medical records? How about before and after DNA tests? Or weaning an insulin-dependent juvenile diabetic? You are really up there WBM! Jesus walked on water... you levitate! Your posts glorify yourself, typical of tongue speakers arrogantly depicting they have something the great unwashed doesn't have. How about sharing the love and wean an insulin-dependent juvenile diabetic, then. How about praying that someone had instantaneous ability to speak a foreign language... Got any cases where an amputee regenerated a limb? I didn't think so. The medical community would be VERY interested, save a lot of surgical reattachments.

I'm a non-believer in the preponderance of your testimony... but, you might provide us a YouTube video of you walking on water. Oughta be a walk in the park for someone who can levitate.

 

[oatmeal]

How 'bout naming the gifts? Put up or shut up!

why did you not read the scripture? They are not gifts, they are called the manifestation of the spirit.

I Corinthians 12:7

Where is speaking in tongues referred to as a gift in scripture?

It isn't, so quit calling it a gift.

God does not call it a gift, are you smarter than God?