ECT As many people doubt the scripture regarding speaking in tongues:

oatmeal

Well-known member
People like to rip on Pentecostals.

Please give your best scriptural definition of a "Pentecostal"

But why? Where in the scriptures does the word, "Pentecostal" appear?

The apostles and others in the first century believed to manifest the gift of holy spirit.

One of the ways they manifested that gift is by the manifestation of speaking in tongues. Acts 2:4, I Corinthians 14:18 etc.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
The Biblical sources you present mean the Holy Spirit gave them the gift to speak to those of a foreign language.
Not:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:

Understand?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The apostles and others in the first century believed to manifest the gift of holy spirit.[

And the apostles and others in the first century believed to raise the dead.


Your presuppositiion is that there was not a specific purpose for the sign gifts, raising the dead..........., and thus, "If it's good enough for (fill in the blank), its good enough for me, and it applies to members of the boc today."


Fine. Drink some anti freeze, and tell us all about it.


Here come da spin, bobbing and weaving, emotional cries.......
 

musterion

Well-known member
Marjoe Gortner can speak in "tongues" as fluent and indistinguishable from any pentecostal/charismatic, and he was an atheist and deliberate shyster at the height of his career. He used to teach a college course on religious frauds and would coach ANY student from his audience to speak in fluent, TBN-grade "tongues" in under ten minutes flat.

But there is no evidence available of someone miraculously speaking Low German, Swahili or Comanche who had never heard those languages before in his life.

Ponder what that could mean, Oatmeal.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
People like to rip on Pentecostals.

Please give your best scriptural definition of a "Pentecostal"

But why? Where in the scriptures does the word, "Pentecostal" appear?

The apostles and others in the first century believed to manifest the gift of holy spirit.

One of the ways they manifested that gift is by the manifestation of speaking in tongues. Acts 2:4, I Corinthians 14:18 etc.


Hi , and why not have an Interpreter PRESENT , than speak in Langaguges , then tell us all what God said !!

dan p
 

musterion

Well-known member
Heard a grace preacher tell of his time in pentecostalism...one guy would always do the interpreting and it was usually the same old "God wants us all to stand up and pray for America," etc. No one could argue it because there was no real tongue to interpret.

One day someone who spoke Yiddish was visiting and wanted to see what happened. He spoke some Yiddish (John 3:16 or something) and sure enough, Mr. Interpreter let out with the same spiel as always. And no one noticed the speaking of an actual language for once.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Hi , and why not have an Interpreter PRESENT , than speak in Langaguges , then tell us all what God said !!

dan p

Yes-Benny Hinn/Hill, when he goes on those scam "Miracle Crusades" in Russia, calls for translators, needs glasses.

Tongues....make the blind see.......

"Charismatics" today-scammers/con artists...........every last one of them.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Heard a grace preacher tell of his time in pentecostalism...one guy would always do the interpreting and it was usually the same old "God wants us all to stand up and pray for America," etc. No one could argue it because there was no real tongue to interpret.

One day someone who spoke Yiddish was visiting and wanted to see what happened. He spoke some Yiddish (John 3:16 or something) and sure enough, Mr. Interpreter let out with the same spiel as always. And no one noticed the speaking of an actual language for once.

yes, i think folks are afraid to say "out loud" that they question the "tongue" thrashings. i have been there, i can't say if some are real; i can say most are not. akin to "wrestling at the chase" (early wwf/wwe) shows
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
You claim to be pentecostal, you do it.

I think you would find it an impossible task to locate a post where I claimed to be a "Pentecostal"

Show me the post where I state, "I am a Pentecostal" or some other such claim.

I do speak in tongues, but a Pentecostal, no.

How do you define the unscriptural term, "Pentecostal"?

My interest is to speak in tongues because the apostles did it. They were decent and in order, there was no confusion except among the unbelievers who mocked them on the day of Pentecost.

How do you define the unscriptural term, "Pentecostal"?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
The Biblical sources you present mean the Holy Spirit gave them the gift to speak to those of a foreign language.
Not:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:

Understand?

Can you show me from scripture where speaking in tongues is called a gift?
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
And the apostles and others in the first century believed to raise the dead.


Your presuppositiion is that there was not a specific purpose for the sign gifts, raising the dead..........., and thus, "If it's good enough for (fill in the blank), its good enough for me, and it applies to members of the boc today."


Fine. Drink some anti freeze, and tell us all about it.


Here come da spin, bobbing and weaving, emotional cries.......

What are you talking about?

spin, bobbing and weaving, emotional cries.....

I speak in tongues as instructed in scripture.

No, as commanded in scripture. I Corinthians 14:5

Get with the program!
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Marjoe Gortner can speak in "tongues" as fluent and indistinguishable from any pentecostal/charismatic, and he was an atheist and deliberate shyster at the height of his career. He used to teach a college course on religious frauds and would coach ANY student from his audience to speak in fluent, TBN-grade "tongues" in under ten minutes flat.

But there is no evidence available of someone miraculously speaking Low German, Swahili or Comanche who had never heard those languages before in his life.

Ponder what that could mean, Oatmeal.

I could claim to be Superman and that you just found some kryptonite.

But I am not Superman, and you do not have kryptonite.

I grew with a fellow who spoke in tongues, but was one of the most deliquent of kids that I knew, besides myself.

God does not the gift of holy spirit because any one is good enough, but because they need it to become spiritually minded.

You need to become spiritually minded, the carnal mind cannot see through its own fog.

Spiritual mindedness is life and peace
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
yes, i think folks are afraid to say "out loud" that they question the "tongue" thrashings. i have been there, i can't say if some are real; i can say most are not. akin to "wrestling at the chase" (early wwf/wwe) shows

What thrashings? where in scripture does God instruct people to do all that "slain in the spirit", thrashings, rolling on the floor?

God does not instruct that, to the contrary, He forbids it, see I Corinthians 14

The Corinthians were way out of order.

Regardless of their obscene behavior while speaking in tongues, the speaking in tongues is genuine.

The obscene behaviour is simply obscene.

Do you quit believing God because believers sin at a times?

Do you quit believing God because some Christians get drunk? or make the mistake of cheating on their spouses or because their kids are not perfect?

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
What thrashings? where in scripture does God instruct people to do all that "slain in the spirit", thrashings, rolling on the floor?

God does not instruct that, to the contrary, He forbids it, see I Corinthians 14

The Corinthians were way out of order.

Regardless of their obscene behavior while speaking in tongues, the speaking in tongues is genuine.

The obscene behaviour is simply obscene.

Do you quit believing God because believers sin at a times?

Do you quit believing God because some Christians get drunk? or make the mistake of cheating on their spouses or because their kids are not perfect?

Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

of course, that's why I can't judge, all things are possible for those that believe Pilippians 4:13 KJV - anyone can play the "card" - YOU DON"T BELIEVE - that's not what scripture says about the gifts (see DAN P posts) so i have reason to doubt and question. i certainly wouldn't base my faith on the gift of 'tongues', especially since it goes against scripture - :patrol:
 

kayaker

New member
People like to rip on Pentecostals.

Please give your best scriptural definition of a "Pentecostal"

But why? Where in the scriptures does the word, "Pentecostal" appear?

The apostles and others in the first century believed to manifest the gift of holy spirit.

One of the ways they manifested that gift is by the manifestation of speaking in tongues. Acts 2:4, I Corinthians 14:18 etc.

See Oatmeal... I've belonged to a COG Pentecostal Church, really good country folk. I never spoke in tongues, never even tried, but found it rather amusing at the time. A simple rural church, dude staggered the streets Saturday night, and spoke in tongues fluently the next morning, I've heard plenty. He was quite skilled at it... even interpreting from time to time. Preacher knew it, we all did in that small town, but no one would say anything to the dude... everyone was sorta spiritually subdued submitting to an event they all subscribed to, rather interesting phenomenon. No one could challenge the dude without challenging the basis for the church. I later frequented a Pentecostal mega-church, one you might even have heard of.

So, tell you what, Oatmeal... Let's say I provide an audio-visual event of a person speaking in tongues in your church, and pause the recorded event before translation. Then, I will provide that cropped tongues aspect of the event to ten of your best-known interpreters, and independently ask their interpretation. I'd be willing to bet a hundred dollars to one that the tongues message will have ten deferent interpretations. And, that's not lack of faith on my part, that's lack of edification on yours. "Hock-uh-muh... Hock-uh-muh Hock-uh-muh Psalm...bia!" Can you interpret that one? First time I ever heard anyone speak in tongues visiting a church with a teenage friend, 'slain in the spirit' as I've heard it called.

Sure Paul referred to himself speaking in tongues found in 1Corinthians 4:15 KJV. Paul spoke in tongues in Romans 9:6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I don't suppose you can tell me specifically who Paul was referring to when he said, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel." Try interpreting that tongues message from Paul. I've heard these verses mentioned several times on TOL, and in churches, typically casting guilt trips on SINNERS!... who was Paul specifically referring to? Now, I know you profess the embodiment of the Holy Ghost, but please toss in a Scriptural coordinate or two for support, just to help me overcome my unrelenting doubt that tongue speakers have exclusive rights space-docking with Almighty God. I proffer Paul was speaking in tongues... and, you're speaking something different, altogether... not edification, but exaltation.

kayaker
 

andyc

New member
The Biblical sources you present mean the Holy Spirit gave them the gift to speak to those of a foreign language.
Not:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:

Understand?

There's only one instance where people spoke in a foreign language.
 

andyc

New member
Marjoe Gortner can speak in "tongues" as fluent and indistinguishable from any pentecostal/charismatic, and he was an atheist and deliberate shyster at the height of his career. He used to teach a college course on religious frauds and would coach ANY student from his audience to speak in fluent, TBN-grade "tongues" in under ten minutes flat.

But there is no evidence available of someone miraculously speaking Low German, Swahili or Comanche who had never heard those languages before in his life.

Ponder what that could mean, Oatmeal.

My own pastor sat with a woman who listened to a tongue in her own language, and then judged the interpretation. The interpretation in English was perfect.
 

andyc

New member
Heard a grace preacher tell of his time in pentecostalism...one guy would always do the interpreting and it was usually the same old "God wants us all to stand up and pray for America," etc. No one could argue it because there was no real tongue to interpret.

One day someone who spoke Yiddish was visiting and wanted to see what happened. He spoke some Yiddish (John 3:16 or something) and sure enough, Mr. Interpreter let out with the same spiel as always. And no one noticed the speaking of an actual language for once.

There was no tongue, and therefore the interpreter should have kept silent. The conclusion from the person testing the church would be legit, and the fault was with the guy interpreting something that wasn't from God.
I remember an Anglican vicar interpreting a tongue once, and then after the service told the pentecostal off for speaking in tongues, saying that they didn't do this sort of thing in their church.
In this instance, the guy speaking in tongues was wrong to do so, and the interpretation was either wrong, or the vicar was silly to reject gifts that are supposed to be used in the church.

The spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet.
 
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