ECT As many people doubt the scripture regarding speaking in tongues:

[kayaker]

Kayaker.
in the 80's I was a psychiatric technician in the navy
as well as a corpsman which is equivalent to modern day physicians assistant.

I understand your medical assumptions

but your suppositions contradict scriptures that relate to the asking and receiving principles of scripture.
we do not receive because we ask amiss.

but if we ask in his unction and Spirit guidance we receive.

Apparently you don't understand, WBM... or you'd hand over the medical reports and/or DNA. My posture correlates with John 9:4 KJV, and your posture correlates with Matthew 24:24 KJV.

I'm outa here... the air's a little too thin.

kayaker

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Apparently you don't understand, WBM... or you'd hand over the medical reports and/or DNA. My posture correlates with John 8:4 KJV, and your posture correlates with Matthew 24:24 KJV.

I'm outa here... the air's a little too thin.

kayaker

You made no case for the NT verses to be untrue.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You folks believe what you want to believe, because you saved yourselves with your faith in yourselves.



kayaker

Why lie like that?

LA

 

[oatmeal]

Hey LA!

I see it in the future, you see it today. So, who needs the second advent, when one can have it all today? The last time I looked, there weren't any faith-healings going on in the ICU, at least not as proposed by the Pentecostals, more and less. Anyone in your church with a hip or knee replaced? Are there any who take any kind of prescribed or OTC medications, lately? Get vaccinations? I suppose those must be unbelievers, then. Pop a vessel in your noodle... and, with more than a little 'luck', wake up in an ICU. I hope your fellow members have the unction to call 911... but, certainly lay on hands in the meanwhile, unless CPR is indicated, and chest compressions are a form of laying on hands, btw.



I'll take a shot at it, LA. Please consider said mountain beginning with Matthew 17:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Through Jesus' healing miracle of the epileptic boy (inherited) in Matthew 17:15, 16, the deficient faith of His disciples was exemplified being they were absent the Holy Spirit. I do render a sort of 'transfiguration' at Pentecost, having 'moved' the aforementioned 'mountain' to said location. Peter healed the heritably stricken lame man in Acts 3:2 KJV, evidence, thereof.

Jesus healed heritable illnesses, Peter did, Paul did... but, the faith-healers make a mockery of the utter magnificence of these truly divine, genetic miracles. That is... unless you can show me the before and after DNA that we do have today. Today, Jesus would, Peter and Paul would... so, what's the hold-up? Either these victims of heritable illnesses don't have faith enough to be healed; or, maybe it's dark:30 John 9:1, 2, 3, John 9:4 KJV, John 9:5; and, we bear such crosses until His second advent.

I'm listening...

kayaker

The boy was not epileptic, he was possessed by a devil spirit

17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” 18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.

Jesus Christ cast out devils.

Does an ICU cast out devils?

Does medical science or psychiatry even admit to the existence of devil spirits?

They need to look at their field of study from a different point of view.

Their approach is carnal, they need to become spiritually minded.

God who designed and formed and made and created mankind knows everything about healing the human mind and body.

Science will never come close to that.

A wise medical professional knows that

 

[OCTOBER23]

CrossRef said,

So you believe you know, you are absolutely sure,
the miracle could not have been in the hearing of them?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Ask yourself on whose heads the Fire appeared and praising God happened

 

[Cross Reference]

CrossRef said,

So you believe you know, you are absolutely sure,
the miracle could not have been in the hearing of them?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Ask yourself on whose heads the Fire appeared and praising God happened

Ask yourself if those who spoke, understood what they were speaking as being a known language? Does it not say they all spoke in "un-known tongues" __ "stammering lips" and they were "heard" by those who could understand? How is it they could understand if the tongues spoken were of unknown origin?

 

[kayaker]

Why lie like that?

LA

There are believers, and there are disciples, and there are believers in disciples' clothing = Matthew 24:24 KJV. All disciples are believers, but all believers are not disciples, many get hooked into vanity and self-exaltation (Genesis 3:5 KJV, Genesis 3:6 KJV). The fact is LA, you folk don't know the difference between a believer wearing wool suit, and a disciple mopping the floor in your churches. Is that how believers become disciples among charismatics? Speaking in tongues and prophesying? I am still waiting to hear you interpret, prophesy, render, or otherwise explain these two divine testimonies by Jesus and His Father (John 8:17, 18) that converts believers (John 8:30 KJV) into JESUS' disciples (John 8:31 KJV), “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32 KJV)… but, you think you know the truth of tongues in Corinthians?

I am under the distinct impression disciples learn the TRUTH (John 8:32 KJV) from these two divine witnesses (John 8:17, 18) between John 8:12 KJV, and John 8:47 KJV. Disciples learn the TRUTH and are set free from confusion; but you folk don't even have a proverbial clue who instigated the crucifixion (John 8:37 KJV). Responding to Jesus' words to His believers (John 8:30 KJV), those instigating His crucifixion said, "We be Abraham's seed and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?" Weren't the Israelites in bondage in Egypt, LA? Then is it not utterly obvious those instigating the crucifixion weren't Israelites? But, you folk want to talk TRUTH about what Paul was saying to those inbred Corinthians (1Corinthians 5:1 KJV) surely plagued with inherited afflictions, including communication disorders?

You folks suggest the great unwashed non-charismatics are a couple slices short of the truth, and you don’t even have a clue to the origin of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV) Paul was sent to. You got caught with your knickers ‘round your knees in Noah’s tent (Genesis 9:22 KJV, Leviticus 18:8 KJV). You folk don’t even perceive the notion witnesses testify (John 8:17, 18), much less Their divine testimonies (John 8:12-47). And, suggest I’m a non-believer? I suspect one has to discern the truth before one can be a non-believer… So, when you folk ever get out of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:5 KJV, Genesis 3:6 KJV), mesmerized from the tongue the serpent… we might have a Scriptural review of Corinthians. As far as I’m concerned, you’re communion table is set with the fruit of Eden.

kayaker

 

[OCTOBER23]

CROSS REF said,

Does it not say they all spoke in "un-known tongues" __ "stammering lips" and they were "heard" by those who could understand? How is it they could understand if the tongues spoken were of unknown origin?
============================================

This is a Reference for ...

Isaiah 33:19
Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive;

of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You may want to Exegetically analyze these verses more thoroughly.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. {understandeth: Gr. heareth }
1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. {two*…*: by two or three sentences separately }

 

[oatmeal]

You made no case for the NT verses to be untrue.

LA

You are right

 

[Cross Reference]

CROSS REF said,

Does it not say they all spoke in "un-known tongues" __ "stammering lips" and they were "heard" by those who could understand? How is it they could understand if the tongues spoken were of unknown origin?
============================================

This is a Reference for ...

Isaiah 33:19
Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive;

of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You may want to Exegetically analyze these verses more thoroughly.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. {understandeth: Gr. heareth }
1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1 Corinthians 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. {two*…*: by two or three sentences separately }

I don't need to. I am aware of the implications.

Why don't you begin to take to heart those you willfully ignore that you might see somethings better especially as being one of the "unlearned". Per 1Cor.14:16,23,24 (KJV).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There are believers, and there are disciples, and there are believers in disciples' clothing = Matthew 24:24 KJV. All disciples are believers, but all believers are not disciples, many get hooked into vanity and self-exaltation (Genesis 3:5 KJV, Genesis 3:6 KJV). The fact is LA, you folk don't know the difference between a believer wearing wool suit, and a disciple mopping the floor in your churches. Is that how believers become disciples among charismatics? Speaking in tongues and prophesying? I am still waiting to hear you interpret, prophesy, render, or otherwise explain these two divine testimonies by Jesus and His Father (John 8:17, 18) that converts believers (John 8:30 KJV) into JESUS' disciples (John 8:31 KJV), “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32 KJV)… but, you think you know the truth of tongues in Corinthians?

I am under the distinct impression disciples learn the TRUTH (John 8:32 KJV) from these two divine witnesses (John 8:17, 18) between John 8:12 KJV, and John 8:47 KJV. Disciples learn the TRUTH and are set free from confusion; but you folk don't even have a proverbial clue who instigated the crucifixion (John 8:37 KJV). Responding to Jesus' words to His believers (John 8:30 KJV), those instigating His crucifixion said, "We be Abraham's seed and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?" Weren't the Israelites in bondage in Egypt, LA? Then is it not utterly obvious those instigating the crucifixion weren't Israelites? But, you folk want to talk TRUTH about what Paul was saying to those inbred Corinthians (1Corinthians 5:1 KJV) surely plagued with inherited afflictions, including communication disorders?

You folks suggest the great unwashed non-charismatics are a couple slices short of the truth, and you don’t even have a clue to the origin of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV) Paul was sent to. You got caught with your knickers ‘round your knees in Noah’s tent (Genesis 9:22 KJV, Leviticus 18:8 KJV). You folk don’t even perceive the notion witnesses testify (John 8:17, 18), much less Their divine testimonies (John 8:12-47). And, suggest I’m a non-believer? I suspect one has to discern the truth before one can be a non-believer… So, when you folk ever get out of the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:5 KJV, Genesis 3:6 KJV), mesmerized from the tongue the serpent… we might have a Scriptural review of Corinthians. As far as I’m concerned, you’re communion table is set with the fruit of Eden.

kayaker

Your emphasis on the flesh is noted, as well as your lies about disciples of Christ.

LA

 

[Right Divider]

Since speaking in tongues was real in the first century and God hasn't changed, there is no reason to conclude that it ceased.

Deceivers always use this sort of FALLACIOUS "reasoning" to confirm their lies.

There is a WORLD of difference between God's unchanging CHARACTER and His changing INSTRUCTIONS.

 

[oatmeal]

Deceivers always use this sort of FALLACIOUS "reasoning" to confirm they lies.

There is a WORLD of difference between God's unchanging CHARACTER and His changing INSTRUCTIONS.

That God's instructions to mankind have changed with His wisdom is clear.

However, there is nothing in scripture that tells us that God's will is to leave us without the powerful spirit that the first century believers utilized to be powerful witnesses of the lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 1:8;4:33

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Deceivers always use this sort of FALLACIOUS "reasoning" to confirm they lies.

There is a WORLD of difference between God's unchanging CHARACTER and His changing INSTRUCTIONS.

Valid point!

 

[Word based mystic]

there is intimations that The Holy Spirit was left for the very purpose of overcoming the enemy.

and empowering the individual christian to have authority over sin and live a righteous life.

the Holy Spirit did not live within man before Christ. yet we saw much miracles through prophets and the such.

How much more so now.

 

[Cross Reference]

there is intimations that The Holy Spirit was left for the very purpose of overcoming the enemy.

I would say that it is incumbent upon the Christian they He live with a sustaining message that, by the Baptism of Jesus Christ, he be able to recognize the enemy and overcome Him __the enemy all too often is, himself.

the Holy Spirit did not live within man before Christ. yet we saw much miracles through prophets and the such.

How much more so now.

Very true.

 

[Cross Reference]

That God's instructions to mankind have changed with His wisdom is clear.

Huh?? More of the same coming at us.

However, there is nothing in scripture that tells us that God's will is to leave us without the powerful spirit that the first century believers utilized to be powerful witnesses of the lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 1:8;4:33

"Depart from me you who work lawlessness. I never knew you." . Jesus.

 

[kayaker]

Oatmeal:

The boy was not epileptic, he was possessed by a devil spirit

17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” 18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.

Listen closely to a prior verse, Oatmeal:

Matthew 17:15 “Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is a lunatic, and sore vexed: for oftimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.”

This despondent father just described gran mal seizures, Oatmeal. Folk knew what inherited blindness was (John 9:1, 2). Folk knew what inherited lameness was (Acts 3:2 KJV), but they didn’t know what heritable neurodegenerative disorders were. Folk knew what an inherited “issue of blood” was (Luke 8:42 KJV, Luke 8:43 KJV, Luke 8:44 KJV), they just didn’t know it was called hemophilia as we know it today, although you may have heard the expression, “free-bleeder.”

Take a look at this poor fellow’s gran mal seizure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrQr1zRme5Y

Do you figure he takes showers, or tub baths? Think he goes swimming without a vest? Gran mal victims fall in their homes breaking furniture and bones, and they don’t drive, they are substantially socially isolated, they can’t hold down jobs… so, yea… being a victim of gran mal seizures is hell on earth.

In all likelihood, that fellow was being observed for a lobectomy to remove the part of his brain that is misfiring being his life is a living hell. But, that’s not demon possession, and charismatics in their arrogance can’t heal such, and blame this fellow for unbelief akin to John 8:15 KJV.

Jesus Christ cast out devils.

Sure He did… that means there’s Hope for charismatics!

Does an ICU cast out devils?

A neurosurgeon can cast out the afflicted part of his brain. What can you do? Blame the guy for unbelief, and accuse him of being possessed?

Does medical science or psychiatry even admit to the existence of devil spirits?

That’s not their job, and what charismatics title as demonic possession could use a little contemporary, secular illumination.

They need to look at their field of study from a different point of view.

Their approach is carnal, they need to become spiritually minded.

There is a spiritual aspect of Christians in medicine. Do you propose all health care workers are unbelieving atheists? I’ll rely on an atheist neurosurgeon any day, over a charismatic faith healer.

God who designed and formed and made and created mankind knows everything about healing the human mind and body.

Science will never come close to that.

A wise medical professional knows that

God created DNA, and Jesus restored DNA. A wise medical professional knows this. Charismatics will never come close to this. Charismatics have to believe that despondent father’s son was demon possessed. Jesus knew exactly what He was doing. Illiterate charismatics are obligated to embrace an feigned spiritual component to substantiate exalted spiritual claims. That’s why charismatics cannot render up DNA that even Jerry Springer provides on his pathetic paternity show.

Unbelief? Or exalted charismatic fantasy substantiating a claim that inherently implies ALL others are despondent publicans.

kayaker

 

[Right Divider]

That God's instructions to mankind have changed with His wisdom is clear.

However, there is nothing in scripture that tells us that God's will is to leave us without the powerful spirit that the first century believers utilized to be powerful witnesses of the lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 1:8;4:33

Then why are YOU not healing everyone and raising the dead?

YOU should be clearing out hospitals all over the world. Are YOU?

 

[oatmeal]

there is intimations that The Holy Spirit was left for the very purpose of overcoming the enemy.

and empowering the individual christian to have authority over sin and live a righteous life.

the Holy Spirit did not live within man before Christ. yet we saw much miracles through prophets and the such.

How much more so now.

Well said.

Why would God terminate that power that was so effective for powerful Christian witnessing?

As you well know, He wouldn't

God certainly did not change, but people turned away from God