ECT As many people doubt the scripture regarding speaking in tongues:

[God's Truth]

You can't heal anyone. If you could heal them you could also save them. Think about it that you might give the Holy spirit His due.

You play word games because you are full of hate. You hate because I show you with God's written Word that your tongue speaking is false.

God allowed people to do miracles.

As for you saying we have nothing to do with saving others, these scriptures rebuke you---

1 Corinthians 7:16 is about a husband saving his wife, or a wife saving her husband.

1 Peter 3:1 is about winning over---saving the husband with your behavior.

Romans 11:14 is about Paul somehow arousing envy in his own people to save some of them.

for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? Romans 10:14

Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked. Acts 8:30

"How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Acts 8:31.

Of course, we can have something to do with saving others.

 

[Word based mystic]

I completely agree. I have been called the worst things, yet I do not want to speak like that to anyone.


I have given up the Catholic religion for God's Truth, and turned many family members against me. I also got involved in another false religion where I had many close friends. It was hard to give up some things that were such an important part of my life, but knowing God's Truth is worth giving it all up for.

i grew up catholic

during that time i pursued a lot of occultic and middleast disciplines.

but one day at age 15 I was scrubbing dock boxes on a yacht dock in ft lauderdale called pier 66.

I started singing a song i kinda made up. it was in frustration for the lack of truth and experience my previous pursuits with the creator.
it basically was a song implying Whoever you are who made this universe, here i am. I give you all of myself.

felt an incredible joy. couldn't get rid of it for 3 days, not that i tried.
3rd day after pay day i went to my occult book store and as i was walking by a section relating to new age thought on lucifer, i saw a book slightly sticking out. I felt a nudge of joy towards it.
It was a hal lindsey book called satan is alive and well on planet earth. I bought it and read the description of the gospel.
that was my beginning in His awesome love and adventure.

 

[God's Truth]

i grew up catholic

during that time i pursued a lot of occultic and middleast disciplines.

but one day at age 15 I was scrubbing dock boxes on a yacht dock in ft lauderdale called pier 66.

I started singing a song i kinda made up. it was in frustration for the lack of truth and experience with The or a creator.
it basically was a song implying Whoever you are who made this universe, here i am. I give you all of myself.

felt an incredible joy. couldn't get rid of it for 3 days, not that i tried.
3rd day after pay day i went to my occult book store and as i was walking by a section relating to new age thought on lucifer, i saw a book slightly sticking out. I felt a nudge of joy towards it.
It was a hal lindsey book called satan is alive and well on planet earth. I bought it and read the description of the gospel.
that was my beginning in His awesome love and adventure.

Thanks for letting me hear about your testimony.
That is powerful when you said what you did and then the joy that came after.
I do want to say though, that we still can get trapped with false doctrines and false teachers.
I have a powerful testimony, and I still got into false tongue speaking.
I check on what I am taught now. Some things are harder to figure out, like when some people tried to get me into Calvinism. I hardly ate or sleep for weeks, as I prayed and studied to find out if that was true or not. Jesus says with the measure we use it will be measured to us and more. I measured a lot into knowing God and Jesus, and received so much.

I only want God's Truth, not some denomination's truth.

 

[oatmeal]

Thanks for letting me hear about your testimony.
That is powerful when you said what you did and then the joy that came after.
I do want to say though, that we still can get trapped with false doctrines and false teachers.
I have a powerful testimony, and I still got into false tongue speaking.
I check on what I am taught now. Some things are harder to figure out, like when some people tried to get me into Calvinism. I hardly ate or sleep for weeks, as I prayed and studied to find out if that was true or not. Jesus says with the measure we use it will be measured to us and more. I measured a lot into knowing God and Jesus, and received so much.

I only want God's Truth, not some denomination's truth.

How would you know it if you came across it?

 

[God's Truth]

How would you know it if you came across it?

That is an excellent question.

Check on everything that someone tries to teach you. Spend time away from pastors and teachers. Spend time alone with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Bible.

How much does it mean to you, how long will you search, how much will you put into it?

With the measure you use it will be measured to you and more.

 

[kayaker]

You made no case for the NT verses to be untrue.

LA

Sure LA,

The NT verses are true… it’s a matter of depth of rendition. I cautiously offer you fellows my humble insights into the origin and dilemma of the Gentiles, descendants of Noah’s son Japheth, the target population of Paul: Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV. Do take notice of v.5: "By these were the isles of the Gentiles (first mention) divided in their lands; every one after his tongue (15 named descendants of Japheth, <15 tongues), after their families, in their nations." In the OT, the Gentiles, descendants of Judah’s grandson Ashkenaz particularly (v.3), were the target population of Nimrod, the mighty hunter (Genesis 10:6, 7, 8, 9, 10). Nimrod was a descendant of Ham and his antediluvian wife (Genesis 5:31, 6:2). Sounds like Paul would encounter a bit of a multilingual tongues challenge evangelizing these Gentiles, agreed? Why so many tongues among the Gentiles?

I find it rather amusing there were around 16 tongues/languages present at Pentecost (Acts 2:7, 8, 9, 10, 11), and I suspect such was beyond the grip of most translators. Pentecost clearly and divinely embraced a multilingual translation challenge, a rather significant miracle (Acts 2:3, 4, 5). What particularly was being communicated? I proffer Pentecost paralleled the language challenge Paul would face evangelizing the <15 tongues/languages among the Gentile descendants of Japheth (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV). This parallel speaks to me that Paul would also need the help of the Holy Ghost performing multilingual translations while evangelizing the Gentile descendants of Japheth. I don’t think Satan overcame the multilingual issue except maybe with the Ashkenazi descendants of Japheth (Genesis 10:3 KJV). Let’s consider another communication challenge Paul faced:

When you folks come to the conclusion Noah's son Japheth was the 'father' of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV), then maybe you can gather a pervasive Corinthian problem:

1Corinthians 1:5 KV “It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles (descendants of Japheth), that one should have his father’s wife.”

Appreciating Japheth being the ‘father’ of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV), this hopefully shines a little light in Noah’s tent (Genesis 9:22 KJV, Leviticus 18:8 KJV). Ham was the ‘father’ of inherited genetic illnesses including blindness (John 9:1, 2), neurodegenerative disabilities like lameness (Acts 3:2) and seizure disorders (Matthew 4:24 KJV, Matthew 17:15 KJV)… even hemophilia (Mark 5:25 KJV) and leprosy are heritable genetic illnesses. Being that Japheth, ‘father’ of the Gentiles, rebuked the notion of incest (Genesis 9:23 KJV), such testifies both to Paul’s intimate OT knowledge noted in 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, and testifies to Paul’s recognition of Gentile character as he noted in Romans 2:14, 15.

Ashkenazi Gentiles (Genesis 10:2, 3, 9, 10) ARE ‘Jewish’ proselytes (noted in Acts 2:10 KJV), while the NON-proselyte Gentiles were considered human dogs in those days. Try to imagine the social status of the multitudes impacted with heritable problems (John 8:15 KJV). This repugnant reputation of NON-proselyte Gentiles, also perceived as sub-human, was instigated and propagated by those non-Israelite (John 8:33 KJV, Romans 9:6, 7), alleged ‘Jews’ (Revelation2:9, 3:9) who mocked Jesus’ ancestry (John 8:13 KJV, John 8:41 KJV), and instigated His crucifixion (John 8:37 KJV).

So, those Corinthians, from which charismatics rustle up out of context proof text, were an inbred bunch of special-needs folk (John 9:1, 2, Acts 3:2 KJV). Such fornication exacerbated and perpetuated the likelihood of misfit progeny among the Corinthians. Can you spell neurodegenerative disorders, communication and social interaction problems? Here’s about a 10-minute YouTube vid from John Stossell about an autistic girl, who would have difficulty in church, but learns to communicate, almost ‘miraculous’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZVV4Ciccg

So, akin to the multilingual translation issues divinely reconciled by the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, with around 16 different tongues/languages; Paul was facing translation issues being there were <15 languages/tongues among the Gentiles (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV). Hence: another job for the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, considering 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, Paul was particularly encountering numbers of ancestrally and genetically impaired descendants of consanguinity often with significant communication deficits (Matthew 9:32, 33, 12:22, 15:30, 31, Mark 9:25 KJV).

I'm just not hearing what you folks are offering, unless you are admonishing communication deficit disorders, healed by Jesus, His disciples, and Paul.

kayaker

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Sure LA,

The NT verses are true… it’s a matter of depth of rendition. I cautiously offer you fellows my humble insights into the origin and dilemma of the Gentiles, descendants of Noah’s son Japheth, the target population of Paul: Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV. Do take notice of v.5: "By these were the isles of the Gentiles (first mention) divided in their lands; every one after his tongue (15 named descendants of Japheth, <15 tongues), after their families, in their nations." In the OT, the Gentiles, descendants of Judah’s grandson Ashkenaz particularly (v.3), were the target population of Nimrod, the mighty hunter (Genesis 10:6, 7, 8, 9, 10). Nimrod was a descendant of Ham and his antediluvian wife (Genesis 5:31, 6:2). Sounds like Paul would encounter a bit of a multilingual tongues challenge evangelizing these Gentiles, agreed? Why so many tongues among the Gentiles?

I find it rather amusing there were around 16 tongues/languages present at Pentecost (Acts 2:7, 8, 9, 10, 11), and I suspect such was beyond the grip of most translators. Pentecost clearly and divinely embraced a multilingual translation challenge, a rather significant miracle (Acts 2:3, 4, 5). What particularly was being communicated? I proffer Pentecost paralleled the language challenge Paul would face evangelizing the <15 tongues/languages among the Gentile descendants of Japheth (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV). This parallel speaks to me that Paul would also need the help of the Holy Ghost performing multilingual translations while evangelizing the Gentile descendants of Japheth. I don’t think Satan overcame the multilingual issue except maybe with the Ashkenazi descendants of Japheth (Genesis 10:3 KJV). Let’s consider another communication challenge Paul faced:

When you folks come to the conclusion Noah's son Japheth was the 'father' of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV), then maybe you can gather a pervasive Corinthian problem:

1Corinthians 1:5 KV “It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles (descendants of Japheth), that one should have his father’s wife.”

Appreciating Japheth being the ‘father’ of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV), this hopefully shines a little light in Noah’s tent (Genesis 9:22 KJV, Leviticus 18:8 KJV). Ham was the ‘father’ of inherited genetic illnesses including blindness (John 9:1, 2), neurodegenerative disabilities like lameness (Acts 3:2) and seizure disorders (Matthew 4:24 KJV, Matthew 17:15 KJV)… even hemophilia (Mark 5:25 KJV) and leprosy are heritable genetic illnesses. Being that Japheth, ‘father’ of the Gentiles, rebuked the notion of incest (Genesis 9:23 KJV), such testifies both to Paul’s intimate OT knowledge noted in 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, and testifies to Paul’s recognition of Gentile character as he noted in Romans 2:14, 15.

Ashkenazi Gentiles (Genesis 10:2, 3, 9, 10) ARE ‘Jewish’ proselytes (noted in Acts 2:10 KJV), while the NON-proselyte Gentiles were considered human dogs in those days. Try to imagine the social status of the multitudes impacted with heritable problems (John 8:15 KJV). This repugnant reputation of NON-proselyte Gentiles, also perceived as sub-human, was instigated and propagated by those non-Israelite (John 8:33 KJV, Romans 9:6, 7), alleged ‘Jews’ (Revelation2:9, 3:9) who mocked Jesus’ ancestry (John 8:13 KJV, John 8:41 KJV), and instigated His crucifixion (John 8:37 KJV).

So, those Corinthians, from which charismatics rustle up out of context proof text, were an inbred bunch of special-needs folk (John 9:1, 2, Acts 3:2 KJV). Such fornication exacerbated and perpetuated the likelihood of misfit progeny among the Corinthians. Can you spell neurodegenerative disorders, communication and social interaction problems? Here’s about a 10-minute YouTube vid from John Stossell about an autistic girl, who would have difficulty in church, but learns to communicate, almost ‘miraculous’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZVV4Ciccg

So, akin to the multilingual translation issues divinely reconciled by the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, with around 16 different tongues/languages; Paul was facing translation issues being there were <15 languages/tongues among the Gentiles (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV). Hence: another job for the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, considering 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, Paul was particularly encountering numbers of ancestrally and genetically impaired descendants of consanguinity often with significant communication deficits (Matthew 9:32, 33, 12:22, 15:30, 31, Mark 9:25 KJV).

I'm just not hearing what you folks are offering, unless you are admonishing communication deficit disorders, healed by Jesus, His disciples, and Paul.

kayaker

The gospel was not preached to the nations by speaking in tongues.

God was showing something of the future, because the gospel heals all differences which has kept people apart. (for their own good at the time)

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
Zep 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.


Those who heard the 120 glorifying God in their own languages were preached the gospel to in the one language of the time, and then they preached in their own languages when they were scattered back home, after they were strengthened with the truth.

God could care less now what flesh men came from.

It was always the spirit of a nation that determined the character of a peoples in conjunction with their flesh, but many have always been escaping both, which is why America and friends are Babylon, not fully fallen yet.

LA

 

[oatmeal]

Sure LA,

The NT verses are true… it’s a matter of depth of rendition. I cautiously offer you fellows my humble insights into the origin and dilemma of the Gentiles, descendants of Noah’s son Japheth, the target population of Paul: Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV. Do take notice of v.5: "By these were the isles of the Gentiles (first mention) divided in their lands; every one after his tongue (15 named descendants of Japheth, <15 tongues), after their families, in their nations." In the OT, the Gentiles, descendants of Judah’s grandson Ashkenaz particularly (v.3), were the target population of Nimrod, the mighty hunter (Genesis 10:6, 7, 8, 9, 10). Nimrod was a descendant of Ham and his antediluvian wife (Genesis 5:31, 6:2). Sounds like Paul would encounter a bit of a multilingual tongues challenge evangelizing these Gentiles, agreed? Why so many tongues among the Gentiles?

I find it rather amusing there were around 16 tongues/languages present at Pentecost (Acts 2:7, 8, 9, 10, 11), and I suspect such was beyond the grip of most translators. Pentecost clearly and divinely embraced a multilingual translation challenge, a rather significant miracle (Acts 2:3, 4, 5). What particularly was being communicated? I proffer Pentecost paralleled the language challenge Paul would face evangelizing the <15 tongues/languages among the Gentile descendants of Japheth (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV). This parallel speaks to me that Paul would also need the help of the Holy Ghost performing multilingual translations while evangelizing the Gentile descendants of Japheth. I don’t think Satan overcame the multilingual issue except maybe with the Ashkenazi descendants of Japheth (Genesis 10:3 KJV). Let’s consider another communication challenge Paul faced:

When you folks come to the conclusion Noah's son Japheth was the 'father' of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV), then maybe you can gather a pervasive Corinthian problem:

1Corinthians 1:5 KV “It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles (descendants of Japheth), that one should have his father’s wife.”

Appreciating Japheth being the ‘father’ of the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV), this hopefully shines a little light in Noah’s tent (Genesis 9:22 KJV, Leviticus 18:8 KJV). Ham was the ‘father’ of inherited genetic illnesses including blindness (John 9:1, 2), neurodegenerative disabilities like lameness (Acts 3:2) and seizure disorders (Matthew 4:24 KJV, Matthew 17:15 KJV)… even hemophilia (Mark 5:25 KJV) and leprosy are heritable genetic illnesses. Being that Japheth, ‘father’ of the Gentiles, rebuked the notion of incest (Genesis 9:23 KJV), such testifies both to Paul’s intimate OT knowledge noted in 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, and testifies to Paul’s recognition of Gentile character as he noted in Romans 2:14, 15.

Ashkenazi Gentiles (Genesis 10:2, 3, 9, 10) ARE ‘Jewish’ proselytes (noted in Acts 2:10 KJV), while the NON-proselyte Gentiles were considered human dogs in those days. Try to imagine the social status of the multitudes impacted with heritable problems (John 8:15 KJV). This repugnant reputation of NON-proselyte Gentiles, also perceived as sub-human, was instigated and propagated by those non-Israelite (John 8:33 KJV, Romans 9:6, 7), alleged ‘Jews’ (Revelation2:9, 3:9) who mocked Jesus’ ancestry (John 8:13 KJV, John 8:41 KJV), and instigated His crucifixion (John 8:37 KJV).

So, those Corinthians, from which charismatics rustle up out of context proof text, were an inbred bunch of special-needs folk (John 9:1, 2, Acts 3:2 KJV). Such fornication exacerbated and perpetuated the likelihood of misfit progeny among the Corinthians. Can you spell neurodegenerative disorders, communication and social interaction problems? Here’s about a 10-minute YouTube vid from John Stossell about an autistic girl, who would have difficulty in church, but learns to communicate, almost ‘miraculous’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZVV4Ciccg

So, akin to the multilingual translation issues divinely reconciled by the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, with around 16 different tongues/languages; Paul was facing translation issues being there were <15 languages/tongues among the Gentiles (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV). Hence: another job for the Holy Ghost. Furthermore, considering 1Corinthians 5:1 KJV, Paul was particularly encountering numbers of ancestrally and genetically impaired descendants of consanguinity often with significant communication deficits (Matthew 9:32, 33, 12:22, 15:30, 31, Mark 9:25 KJV).

I'm just not hearing what you folks are offering, unless you are admonishing communication deficit disorders, healed by Jesus, His disciples, and Paul.

kayaker

Those are a lot of verses.

There is no connection with your OT verses and speaking in tongues.

I Corinthians 14:5, Acts 2:38.... are still true.

 

[resodko]

Fine. Drink some anti freeze, and tell us all about it.

done it

it was delicious

 

[kayaker]

The gospel was not preached to the nations by speaking in tongues.

I sincerely beg to differ, LA. How do you figure nations of other languages heard the Gospel, then? Pentecost was the first step to fulfill the great commission in Matthew 28:19 KJV reflecting on Acts 2:5 KJV. “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (teach what, particularly?), baptizing then n the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” didn’t have anything to do with water, btw. I suggest reconsidering Luke 12:49 KJV, Luke 12:50 KJV, Luke 12:51 KJV, Luke 12:52 KJV, Luke 12:53 KJV. Up until Pentecost, there was little need for translation of the Gospel into other languages. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. There were about 16 languages gathered about at Pentecost. Those listening heard something in their own language. What else did they hear, collectively in their own languages, if not the Gospel truth, then? Those listening miraculously heard the Gospel truth in their own language while the multitudes gathered closer to hear.

Acts 2:3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8... KJV "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues (languages), as the Spirit gave them utterance (what were they saying?). 5) And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven (multiple languages). 6) Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together (the multitude came closer to hear), and were confounded, because that every man heard them (those speaking) speak in his own language. 7) And they (the gathered multitude) were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all (locally and together) these which speak Galileans? 8) And how hear we every man in our own tongue (language), wherein we were born?"​

Acts 2:9, 10 discerns about 16 nations, and 16 languages. Even the mockers understood there was a collection of speakers present before the multitudes of different languages (Acts 2:13 KJV).

God was showing something of the future, because the gospel heals all differences which has kept people apart. (for their own good at the time)

God was showing “all nations,” right then and there, the Gospel preached to “all nations” (Acts 2:5 KJV). You mention, “heals all differences,” and Jesus specifically mentioned such in Matthew 13:15 KJV regarding healing believers to become disciples found discussed in John 8:31 KJV, John 8:32 KJV. The futuristic component you mentioned paralleled Paul's dilemma facing <15 languages evangelizing the Gentiles (Genesis 10:5 KJV), and the necessity for Holy Ghost translations of the Gospel. That which "kept people apart" was their languages being unable to hear the Gospel. The Gospel was preached to “all nations” right then and there, in their own languages. What did they hear in their own languages? May I refer you again to Matthew 28:19 KJV that didn’t have anything to do with water, as many believe, today. You brought forth the following, LA:

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
Zep 3:11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
Zep 3:12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.

If I gather your line of thought correctly, you render Zep 3:9 referring to the charismatic notion of tongues. I gather the “pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord” referred to the specific truth Jesus spoke in John 8:30 KJV, John 8:31 KJV, particularly John 8:32 KJV “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” What was Jesus’ specific truth, LA? Surf the net… I’ve never found such there. Nonetheless, I proffer said truth “converted” (Matthew 13:15 KJV) believers (John 8:30 KJV) into Jesus’ disciples (John 8:31 KJV). Said truth was found in the testimonies of the TWO WITNESSES Jesus mentioned in John 8:17, 18. So, what was the truth, the testimonies, of these two divine witnesses, LA? Surf it up… I’ve asked this question to learned MDiv and PhD theologians to no avail. Evidently, Jesus’ specific truth in John 8:32 KJV lies dead in the streets reflecting on Revelation’s TWO WITNESSES.

Those who heard the 120 glorifying God in their own languages were preached the gospel to in the one language of the time, and then they preached in their own languages when they were scattered back home, after they were strengthened with the truth.

What was “the truth,” LA? Even Pilot knew “the truth” in John 18:38 KJV. What specifically was “the truth” in john 8:32 KJV? What was the truth of those two divine witnesses (John 8:17, 18) that lies dead in the streets, today?

No doubt. those who heard “the truth” at Pentecost went forth and preached such among those fluent in their language. Nonetheless, the translation miracle of Pentecost occurred when those of some 16 languages (Acts 2:9, 10, 11) heard “the truth” (Acts 2:4 KJV). The Gospel truth was spoken in their native language (Acts 2:8 KJV) to those present, and before they returned to their native land following the day of Pentecost. The translation miracle of the Pentecost began there, and continued in the native lands and languages of those who witnessed the translation miracle of Pentecost hearing the Gospel truth.

Furthermore, you bring up a number that has perplexed theologians as I recall. Besides Jesus’ chosen disciples, where did those “120 glorifying God in their own language” you bring forth come from? I proffer Stephen was among them. Even Matthias was counted among the apostles (Acts 1:26 KJV). Where did those 108 come from, then?

God could care less now what flesh men came from.

Agreed wholeheartedly following the conception of Christ. However, prior thereto, ancestry was paramount to provide our OT prophesied Messiah (Isaiah 65:9 KJV, etc.). Please consider Matthew began the NT with the ancestry of Jesus beginning from Abraham (Matthew 1:1, 2). Luke provided the “generations” of Jesus in Luke 3:23-38. Cain’s great-grandson Lamech (Genesis 4:17, 18) even prophesied the arrival generation of our Messiah in Genesis 4:24 KJV being “seventy and sevenfold.” Go to Luke 3:38 and begin counting names with God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3… and so forth. You won’t find this prophecy on the net, I dare say! Can you imagine Lamech’s prophecy of our Messiah’s arrival generation being a component of being baptized in the ‘name’ of Jesus, all 77 inclusive generations, thereof? Following Jesus’ conception, ancestry was of no significance as you suggest, yet such was the discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3:1, 2, 3, 4.

It was always the spirit of a nation that determined the character of a peoples in conjunction with their flesh, but many have always been escaping both, which is why America and friends are Babylon, not fully fallen yet.

Do you proffer then the only ones who are not fully fallen are tongues speakers? Babylon began with Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord, king of Babel, in Genesis 10:6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Nimrod was the grandson of Ham (Genesis 9:22 KJV, Leviticus 18:1 KJV) and his antediluvian wife (Genesis 5:32. Luke 3:38, 37, 36, Genesis 6:1, 2). The two divine testimonies of the TWO WITNESSES of John 8:17, 18 lie dead in the streets, today. I’d be utterly amazed that anyone can find these two divine testimonies anywhere surfing the net. That’s a pretty good clue that Babylon has taken quite a foothold (John 9:4 KJV, ‘dark:30), and charismatics are not exempt.

Where did the 108 come from, LA? What is the testimony of the two witnesses of John 8:17, 18, “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” John 8:32 KJV? What was this truth, the two testimonies? I proffer the 120 (John 8:30 KJV, John 8:31 KJV) knew this specific Gospel truth (John 8:32 KJV) that was preached to the multitudes in their own 16 languages at Pentecost. I also suggest your charismatic theology, along with other theologies, comes up more than a little short on answers to these questons. Please reconsider Matthew 8:19 KJV, and Matthew 8:20 KJV. It’s one thing to be able to repent (a simple change of mind-set) of one’s own theology. It’s a whole new ballgame when one bears responsibility for serving the kool-aid to one’s loved ones. You folks would have to surrender virtually everything, and everyone, to give serious consideration to any consideration to the contrary. Do know that my prayers are for you!

kayaker

 

[kayaker]

Those are a lot of verses.

There is no connection with your OT verses and speaking in tongues.

I Corinthians 14:5, Acts 2:38.... are still true.

Thanks for your post, Oatmeal. Certainly there is no connection with your notion of speaking in tongues. Such was only the miracle of language translation. That doesn't even compare to what you folks offer! Sure these verses ring true... you simply have a little homework ahead of you. Paul, sent to the 15 nations/tongues of the Gentiles (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV) had an intense need for language translation. Hence: A job for the Holy Ghost.

I gather you've finally realized the origin of the 15 nations/tongues of the Gentiles to whom Paul was sent! I gather you now have deeper understanding of Paul's respect FOR the Gentiles (1Corinthians 5:1, Romans 2:14, 15). Nonetheless, I've offered some questions to LA at the end of my lengthy post, give them a shot! The great commission required that we "teach all nations,..." as THE fundamental component of "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Teach what, Oatmeal? The truth (John 8:32 KJV)? What's in Jesus' 'name' besides five letters? How about considering Lamech's declaration in Genesis 4:24 KJV being the "seventy and sevenfold" arrival generation of our Messiah! Start from Luke 3:38 counting from God is generation #2, Adam generation #2, Seth #3, and so forth.

What the charismatics have done is take "tongues" out of context, and reverse Jesus' healing miracles of Matthew 9:32, 33, 12:22, 15:30, 31. Mark 9:25 KJV. That's a rather precarious scenario. So, when you folks can heal neurodegenerative disorders like lameness and palsy, heritable blindness, heritable hemophilia and leprosy... let me know! Meanwhile, I look forward to yall's turning water into wine... but, mostly, walking on water. Otherwise, you all fall into the category of Matthew 24:11 KJV, Matthew 24:24 KJV flipping-off the great-unwashed (Matthew 24:12 KJV). Tread water afoot... and, you charismatics might just want to hold your breath on that one! Tackle that last paragraph to LA... while he flounders in the gulf.

kayaker

 

[patrick jane]

Thanks for letting me hear about your testimony.
That is powerful when you said what you did and then the joy that came after.
I do want to say though, that we still can get trapped with false doctrines and false teachers.
I have a powerful testimony, and I still got into false tongue speaking.
I check on what I am taught now. Some things are harder to figure out, like when some people tried to get me into Calvinism. I hardly ate or sleep for weeks, as I prayed and studied to find out if that was true or not. Jesus says with the measure we use it will be measured to us and more. I measured a lot into knowing God and Jesus, and received so much.

I only want God's Truth, not some denomination's truth.

cuz everybody else is wrong - atrol:



View attachment 19488

 

[intojoy]

Goof Troof

 

[God's Truth]

cuz everybody else is wrong - atrol:



View attachment 19488

You say things that are nowhere in the Bible.
You believe we all have the Holy Spirit living inside us, everyone, even those who hate God. You teach that the Holy Spirit is in all of us and just needs to be "activated".

That kind of garbage needs to be rebuked sharply.

This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith---The Holy Bible.

 

[kayaker]

cuz everybody else is wrong - atrol:



View attachment 19488

LOL! Your pic totally cracks me up! It becomes less of a lie when more people believe it! ROFLOL!

DON'T drink the kool-aid that Satan served in the Garden in Genesis 3:4, 5, 6. VERY tempting, though!

kayaker

 

[God's Truth]

LOL! Your pic totally cracks me up! It becomes less of a lie when more people believe it! ROFLOL!

DON'T drink the kool-aid that Satan served in the Garden in Genesis 3:4, 5, 6. VERY tempting, though!

kayaker

Excellent point.

 

[oatmeal]

Thanks for your post, Oatmeal. Certainly there is no connection with your notion of speaking in tongues. Such was only the miracle of language translation. That doesn't even compare to what you folks offer! Sure these verses ring true... you simply have a little homework ahead of you. Paul, sent to the 15 nations/tongues of the Gentiles (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV) had an intense need for language translation. Hence: A job for the Holy Ghost.

I gather you've finally realized the origin of the 15 nations/tongues of the Gentiles to whom Paul was sent! I gather you now have deeper understanding of Paul's respect FOR the Gentiles (1Corinthians 5:1, Romans 2:14, 15). Nonetheless, I've offered some questions to LA at the end of my lengthy post, give them a shot! The great commission required that we "teach all nations,..." as THE fundamental component of "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Teach what, Oatmeal? The truth (John 8:32 KJV)? What's in Jesus' 'name' besides five letters? How about considering Lamech's declaration in Genesis 4:24 KJV being the "seventy and sevenfold" arrival generation of our Messiah! Start from Luke 3:38 counting from God is generation #2, Adam generation #2, Seth #3, and so forth.

What the charismatics have done is take "tongues" out of context, and reverse Jesus' healing miracles of Matthew 9:32, 33, 12:22, 15:30, 31. Mark 9:25 KJV. That's a rather precarious scenario. So, when you folks can heal neurodegenerative disorders like lameness and palsy, heritable blindness, heritable hemophilia and leprosy... let me know! Meanwhile, I look forward to yall's turning water into wine... but, mostly, walking on water. Otherwise, you all fall into the category of Matthew 24:11 KJV, Matthew 24:24 KJV flipping-off the great-unwashed (Matthew 24:12 KJV). Tread water afoot... and, you charismatics might just want to hold your breath on that one! Tackle that last paragraph to LA... while he flounders in the gulf.

kayaker

You sure are an expert at complicating simple truths.

Speaking in tongues is one of nine divinely beneficial ways the gift of holy spirit is manifested. I Corinthians 12:7-11

What worked for the believers in the first century works just as well for believers today.

Believers who believe to manifest the gift of holy spirit are those who are fulfilling God's promise to His people by the prophet Jesus Christ in John 14:12. Which promise is yet true.

 

[oatmeal]

There are many people who have seen God's power in action.

It is sad that some people have taken the gift of eternal life and mocked God by their obscene behavior while they speak in tongues.

That obscene behavior is comparable to idolatry, they speak in tongues which God wants them to do, but add to that works of confusion.

God is not the author of confusion, but of peace. I Corinthians 14:33

Any meeting with that much confusion is ignoring God's instructions on how speaking in tongues is to be used most beneficially.

 

[kayaker]

Excellent point.

I think PatrickJane's attachment literally speaks volumes. His timing was impeccable with that one, and speaks to us all. I don't want PJ to think I was picking your side in your discussion, even though you did. Please don't accept this post as an invitation for further discussion, GT.

 

[kayaker]

You sure are an expert at complicating simple truths.

Thanks, Oatmeal! Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. That's simple enough. Then, how was His Gospel to be preached to the remaining 15 nations speaking other languages at Pentecost? Don't tell me... a translator might be necessary. Is this simple enough? Let's say you discovered the ultimate cure for cancer... don't you think your research and finding will sooner or later need to be translated to other tongues to share this great discovery with "all nations"? That's simple enough.

The origin of the Gentiles with their 15 nations/language (Shemite language would be the 16th language) bears a striking parallel to 16 languages spoken at Pentecost. That's simple enough. The problem is charismatics, like non-tongues folk, don't have a clue to the origin of the Gentiles being descendants of Japheth. Paul clearly understood this, and that's simple enough to me. Pentecost exemplified the Divine resolution of the language translation issue that was about to fall into Paul's scope of practice.

Speaking in tongues is one of nine divinely beneficial ways the gift of holy spirit is manifested. I Corinthians 12:7-11

Certainly! Then how about gathering up a book written in a tongue foreign to you... and, let's hear it! How about being a translator in a foreign church so the audience can clearly understand the message.

What worked for the believers in the first century works just as well for believers today.

Translation of the Gospel truth into other tongues began at Pentecost. One can find their own native language version, online. The only tongue the Gospel isn't translated into is the charismatic tongue. So, the challenge before charismatics is translating the English version of the Bible into the charismatic tongue version... that way all the charismatics will be of one accord.

Believers who believe to manifest the gift of holy spirit are those who are fulfilling God's promise to His people by the prophet Jesus Christ in John 14:12. Which promise is yet true.

Believers (John 8:30 KJV) are "converted" (Matthew 13:15 KJV) into disciples (John 8:31 KJV) hearing "...the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32 KJV). Then, what were the two testimonies of these divine TWO WITNESSES (John 8:17, 18)? I dare say the great commission fulfills this conversion (Matthew 28:19 KJV).

Jesus' words in Luke 12:49 KJV and Luke 12:50 KJV were fulfilled in Acts 2:3 KJV. Do you imagine this rather striking parallel? Seems simple enough to me. What's not simple is the charismatic tongues rendition from the English translation.

kayaker