ECT Who is not saved?

[oatmeal]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with that, there are to many verses in the scriptures to contradict that. That show us that we will be cut off if we don't live by the will of God and we put our flesh first.

Well, agree or not.

Are you referring to the passage in Romans?

The one speaking to Gentiles, not Christians?

Yes, you are

 

[oatmeal]

Are those born of God not with the Lord now? Surely once we are born of God and we walk in the Spirit and worship God in Spirit and in truth then we are with the Lord?

And Christ Jesus also said, wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name, there I will be in the midst.

Christians are born of God and that is right now.

Walking by the spirit is a choice that can and should be made by those born of God, but most Christians have little or no knowledge of what that entails.

One major place found in Paul's epistles is I Corinthians 12-14

Worshiping God in the spirit is again like walking in or by the spirit, most Christians need to learn about that.

the Lord is seated on the right hand of the throne of God, he is not here right now. He may and has shown up time to time as in his visit to Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus.

If God reveals Jesus Christ in a vision to someone that is God's business

Jesus Christ did say that, but is he literally with those two or three? or is it about spiritually being with them. Jesus Christ is only one place at one time. He is not here on the earth.

Have you ever asked why Jesus only said "two or three"?

Does that mean if you are alone and say praying to God, Jesus ignores you?

Or if four or more are gathered, again you are ignored?

 

[marhig]

Christians are born of God and that is right now.

Walking by the spirit is a choice that can and should be made by those born of God, but most Christians have little or no knowledge of what that entails.

One major place found in Paul's epistles is I Corinthians 12-14

Worshiping God in the spirit is again like walking in or by the spirit, most Christians need to learn about that.

the Lord is seated on the right hand of the throne of God, he is not here right now. He may and has shown up time to time as in his visit to Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus.

If God reveals Jesus Christ in a vision to someone that is God's business

Jesus Christ did say that, but is he literally with those two or three? or is it about spiritually being with them. Jesus Christ is only one place at one time. He is not here on the earth.

Have you ever asked why Jesus only said "two or three"?

Does that mean if you are alone and say praying to God, Jesus ignores you?

Or if four or more are gathered, again you are ignored?

You say that worshipping God in the Spirit like walking in or by the Spirit, most Christians need to learn about that. And you are right, but how on earth are they eternally saved if they are not walking in the Spirit? We are not saved in any way whatsoever unless we are walking in the Spirit.

No two can by one and the Holy Spirit. And then Christ is in the midst.

 

[marhig]

Well, agree or not.

Are you referring to the passage in Romans?

The one speaking to Gentiles, not Christians?

Yes, you are

Paul clearly says that we are to remain in God's goodness or we will be cut off. Thus he is talking to people who know God. As he is in Romans 1

Would you like me to quote some verses to show why I believe as I do?

 

[Danoh]

Paul clearly says that we are to remain in God's goodness or we will be cut off. Thus he is talking to people who know God. As he is in Romans 1

Would you like me to quote some verses to show why I believe as I do?

So long as you continue to go by your own study methods, in contrast to that Three-Fold Principle (Time Past; But Now; and the Ages to Come) that the Apostle Paul lays out his understanding of the things of God from, in Ephesians 2, you will continue to believe your confusion, unaware that is exactly what it is: your confusion.

While you are at it, it would do you good to begin to go by this other Three-Fold Principle also...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that...

1 - they received the word with all readiness of mind, and...

2 - searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12...

3 - Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

That is now two Three-Fold Principles you willfully ignore...

I know...I know...I lost you at that at this one..

1 - they received the word with all readiness of mind...

You have said as much in prior posts to me and others...

So be it... your loss.

1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[marhig]

So long as you continue to go by your own study methods, in contrast to that Three-Fold Principle (Time Past; But Now; and the Ages to Come) that the Apostle Paul lays out his understanding of the things of God from, in Ephesians 2, you will continue to believe your confusion, unaware that is exactly what it is: your confusion.

While you are at it, it would do you good to begin to go by this other Three-Fold Principle also...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that...

1 - they received the word with all readiness of mind, and...

2 - searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12...

3 - Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

That is now two Three-Fold Principles you willfully ignore...

I know...I know...I lost you at that at this one..

1 - they received the word with all readiness of mind...

You have said as much in prior posts to me and others...

So be it... your loss.

1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

In memory of Rom. 5: 6-8.

Nothing there that you have quoted shows that we can't be cut off if we turn away from God and live by the will of our flesh putting ourselves before him.

I have seen many who profess to know God and say that they are eternally saved, yet still loving their flesh. Many having a false security because they have been told that there is nothing that they can do that will lose them their salvation. But to wilfully sin and to put our flesh and this world before God certainly can lead to us being cut off. As shown clearly within the scriptures.

We can't serve God and mammon, or love this world before him, we are to turn away from the works of the flesh and this world. Those who are truly being saved will be losing their lives for Christs sake and they will be living by the will of God and they will be producing the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[oatmeal]

You say that worshipping God in the Spirit like walking in or by the Spirit, most Christians need to learn about that. And you are right, but how on earth are they eternally saved if they are not walking in the Spirit? We are not saved in any way whatsoever unless we are walking in the Spirit.

No two can by one and the Holy Spirit. And then Christ is in the midst.

Did you always walk in your parents instructions?

did you automatically, without your consent, walk in your parents instructions?

Is that something you had to learn how to do, that is, if you cared to?

Even if you learned how to do that, did you always do that?

Are you aware of the concept of believing?

Are you aware of the concept of free will?

Are you aware of the concept of obedience?

"This I say then, Walk in the spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh" Galatians 5:16-17

That is stated as what, an automatic response immediately upon being saved or as one of two options?

Read that and the rest of the chapter.

Why write that if there was no option?

 

[john w]

Really?

Deut 30:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(30:10) If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, [and] if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

​

Josh 22:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(22:5) But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

​

Prov 3:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:1) My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:

​

Isa 51:7 (AKJV/PCE)​

(51:7) ¶ Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

​

Ps 37:31 (AKJV/PCE)​

(37:31) The law of his God [is] in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

​

Job 22:22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(22:22) Receive, I pray thee, the law from his mouth, and lay up his words in thine heart.


​

Mark 12 KJV
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

The Lord Jesus Christ quoted the law, straight from the OT, taught it;


Deuteronomy 6:5 KJV

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.



Deuteronomy 10:12 KJV

And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,



Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.


Leviticus 19 KJV
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

 

[heir]

Who is not saved?

Those who have received not (by faith) the love of the truth that they can be...2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 KJV

If that is anyone reading this post, it's not too late for you (yet). You can be saved when you trust the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV as the completed work of your salvation.

 

[heir]

I don't believe we know whether we are saved or not until Jesus' Judgement day or Lord's day.

Jesus is the Judge, not any of us for our fate.

Romans 2:16 KJV

I suggest you trust the Lord believing Paul's "my gospel" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

 

[heir]

If you do not know if you are saved that is typical of many Christians

However, God makes it clear that we can know if we have received salvation, ie, the gift of eternal life

I John 5:13 points that out

Believing on the name won't save anyone today. One MUST trust the WHY of the cross as the means of salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

 

[heir]

On the centrally I don't know anyone says they don't know if they are saved.

all mainstream churchgoers say they are saved, in my experience.

All "mainstream churchgoers" believe they had to do something to be saved. That is not salvation (Titus 3:5 KJV) in the dispensation of the grace of God (Ephesians 3:6 KJV).

 

[heir]

In this forum, only Marhig and I claim not anyone knows who are saved.

Paul knew he was and so do I (Romans 8:38-39 KJV, Ephesians 1:12 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:12 KJV). Why can't you?

 

[heir]

Why don't you take a pole.

It's "poll".

 

[Danoh]

Believing on the name won't save anyone today. One MUST trust the WHY of the cross as the means of salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

Nevertheless, the principle or rule of thumb that 1 John 5: 13 is based on, applies.

The part in bold...

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The principle being that the things of God, including the issue of knowing one can have or has...eternal life...can be known through the Scripture.

Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5; via the empowerment of Rom. 14:5, that a focus on the memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 allows.

 

[heir]

Nevertheless, the principle or rule of thumb that 1 John 5: 13 is based on, applies.

The part in bold...

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The principle being that the things of God, including the issue of knowing one can have or has...eternal life...can be known through the Scripture.

Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5; via the empowerment of Rom. 14:5, that a focus on the memory of Rom. 5: 6-8 allows.

Get a grip. Believing on the WHO is not trusting the Lord believing the WHY of the cross and what John writes (and to whom) is not a pattern of the good news of our salvation. Pretty simple.

 

[meshak]

Nothing there that you have quoted shows that we can't be cut off if we turn away from God and live by the will of our flesh putting ourselves before him.

I have seen many who profess to know God and say that they are eternally saved, yet still loving their flesh. Many having a false security because they have been told that there is nothing that they can do that will lose them their salvation. But to wilfully sin and to put our flesh and this world before God certainly can lead to us being cut off. As shown clearly within the scriptures.

We can't serve God and mammon, or love this world before him, we are to turn away from the works of the flesh and this world. Those who are truly being saved will be losing their lives for Christs sake and they will be living by the will of God and they will be producing the fruits of the Spirit.

well said sister

 

[meshak]

In one thread you took my posting that Steko and I agree on much as meaning that I am jealous of him. :chuckle:

And you do this kind of two plus two equals seven...all the time.

With the words of other posters BUT ESPECIALLY with the Scripture.

Which makes you appear either not all there to others, or simply dishonest.

I'll go with a bit of both about you, but lean much more heavily on the former of those two.

And now you have some of the opposing know-it-alls concluding you are two people - what I jokingly referred to in one post, as Meshak Other, and Meshak Light. :chuckle:

Well, you are their same kind of know-it-all.

In their same, consistent failure at discerning those things within the things that differ between things - those things that only appear to differ.

The whole thing is amusing - people who are each basically the same in incompetence, ever at odds with one another.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8 towards each of you, myself included.

For...left to each our own "competence" we'd all really be up a creek without a paddle in a boat full of holes during a raging storm - but for the FINISHED work of the Cross.

Hello Danoh

 

[Danoh]

Get a grip. Believing on the WHO is not trusting the Lord believing the WHY of the cross and what John writes (and to whom) is not a pattern of the good news of our salvation. Pretty simple.

I never said that.

YOU read that INTO what I said.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8

 

[Danoh]

Hello Danoh

How did your recent move go?

Rom. 5:6-8.