ECT Who is not saved?

[meshak]

You can and do disagree

If you cannot realize that the bulk of the gospels describes the work of Jesus Christ in progress, not his completed works, then what is the significance of "It is finished"?

good day brother.

 

[oatmeal]

good day brother.

So, you don't have an answer.

Keep reading

 

[oatmeal]

Like I said, your reasoning does not harmonize with Jesus word.

I am done with you in this regard, if you repeat the same claims over and over.

You have a problem with scripture?

I repeat scripture to myself so it becomes a part of me.

 

[oatmeal]

It is not your call to self claim you are doing the same works and doing greater than Jesus.

We need to watch out of our egoistic claims.

If our salvation depends on Jesus' words only

Then no one can be saved for

Who has done John 14:12?

Have you done the same works as Jesus Christ? let alone greater works!


Have you at the very least changed water into wine?

I haven't

But since Jesus is right about John 14:12 I can if the need so arise.

 

[oatmeal]

You are still repeating yourself, oatmeal.

so you will get the same kind of replies.

No, actually I keep repeating scripture that evidently you have not read, or remember nor considered

I am doing you a favor by repeating those scriptures to you.

Peter reminded believers of truths they already knew.

II Peter 1:12-15 ...

They already knew those truths

You have to know truths before they can be repeated to you.

 

[marhig]

Yes it is, for Jesus had not paid the price for that salvation yet.

At the moment of him speaking those words, He had not yet been crucified let alone raised from the dead, ascended and seated at the right hand of God.


However, his words, in John 3:16 were true at that time although it spoke of a future reality.

Genesis 3:15 is a foretelling of future events. God told these words to the serpent, the Devil. God's words are true, even though they are not completely fulfilled yet. The seed of the woman has come and the seed's heel was bruised, but the serpent's head is not yet bruised, he is still alive. The death of our adversary is yet to come. He will be bound for a while but he will die, for the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

John 3:16? In what way?

 

[marhig]

Marhig,

Please give an accurate reference to your "quote"

Can a person love their neighbor but not love God?

Can a person not commit adultery but steal?

Are you suggesting that unless a person is living by all the will of God and perfectly, they are not saved?

I don't think you are,


In this age of grace, Romans 10:9-10 tells us the actions we need to take to receive salvation.

Once we have done those two things we have been saved.

And that is wonderful, but there is more to learn and do in order to reap the immediate and long term benefits of living according to that salvation. Ie, keep Jesus as lord and continuing to believe in the God that raised with from the dead.

No I'm not talking about obeying the letter of the law, but the laws written in our hearts and in our minds by the Spirit of God.

Once we are born of God and walk in the Spirit, then the Spirit teaches us, guides us and shows us our sins. We can either listen to our conscience, or when our heart is pricked by something we hear of God from others and obey God, or put our flesh before him. If we listen and deny ourselves when we know it is a sin to do what we are about to do, then we are living by the will of God. I'm not saying we won't sin, but we shouldn't be wilfully sinning once we know the truth.

 

[marhig]

I know if I am being obedient for the most part for I have read what God expects of us as sons of God. God revealed what God expects of us as Christians in Paul's epistles.

Jesus' words are for those in the gospel period. His words are wise but not directly or fully applicable to us in this age of grace. To deny Paul's epistles is to deny that Jesus Christ's life and death and resurrection. If he accomplished nothing, then all he is and all he did is for naught

We can do the same works as Jesus Christ's and greater.


Believe his words, in John 14:12

The words of Jesus Christ are for everyone, his words are from the father and they are Spirit and they are life. For all of us.

 

[marhig]

I am not part of that "we" that will be judged as in the book of Revelation.

Christians are already judged to be justified, Romans 5:1, and made righteous, I Corinthians 1:30, II Corinthians 5:21.

Revelation is not talking about those who were already judges as righteous, that is us, but those who did choose salvation in this age of grace and those outside the age of grace

Sorry but I believe that we all will face judgement, Paul said we will be all judged on what we do good and bad, and he preached to the gentiles.

 

[marhig]

Marhig,

Please give an accurate reference to your "quote"

Can a person love their neighbor but not love God?

Can a person not commit adultery but steal?

Are you suggesting that unless a person is living by all the will of God and perfectly, they are not saved?

I don't think you are,


In this age of grace, Romans 10:9-10 tells us the actions we need to take to receive salvation.

Once we have done those two things we have been saved.

And that is wonderful, but there is more to learn and do in order to reap the immediate and long term benefits of living according to that salvation. Ie, keep Jesus as lord and continuing to believe in the God that raised with from the dead.

In Romans 10 9-10 Paul is speaking about being saved from this world of sin and death by the power of the Holy Spirit helping us to overcome. Not being eternally saved.

 

[marhig]

That is true, just because people are saved, does not mean that their walk with God is perfect.

A drunk man who falls into a deep lake and who is saved from drowning could and may most likely continue in being drunken even though he was saved from certain death.

God expects more of us than that and rightfully so.

Having been saved, God expects of us to walk (conduct our life, live the lifestyle that is) worthy of God's calling

Ephesians 4:1

I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Colossians 2:6

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Colossians 1:10

That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;


1 Thessalonians 2:12

That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

2 Thessalonians 1:5

Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

2 Thessalonians 1:11

Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

We were saved when we were yet sinners.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


We were not saved by walking worthy of God, but to walk worthy of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We were not capable of those good works until we were saved and given the gift of righteousness/salvation/holy spirit/eternal life

What happens to us if we don't continue in those good works and turn away and live by the will of our flesh and forget God?

 

[marhig]

Well, Colossians 1:27 does say that we have Christ in us.

So, I Thessalonians 4:13-17 tells us what?

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Can you tell me what you believe those verses to mean thanks

 

[marhig]

No, actually I keep repeating scripture that evidently you have not read, or remember nor considered

I am doing you a favor by repeating those scriptures to you.

Peter reminded believers of truths they already knew.

II Peter 1:12-15 ...

They already knew those truths

You have to know truths before they can be repeated to you.

Oatmeal, from what I'm reading, you seem to believe in OSAS, can you tell me what Paul means by this?

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[oatmeal]

What happens to us if we don't continue in those good works and turn away and live by the will of our flesh and forget God?

If we continue in sin, we lose out on the blessings that could have come to us if we believed God's word.

Of course we shouldn't do that, but we do sin.

Since eternal life is eternal, we do not nor can we lose eternal life.

I Peter 1:23 the seed we were born again by is incorruptible, no sin or lack of believing can corrupt it, let alone cause it to be lost.

Why was I John written?

So our joy could be full as we enjoy fellowship with our fellow saints, with God and with His son,

We can and do mar or break our fellowship (sin) but if we confess our sins the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us of all unrighteousness. I John 1:1-9

 

[oatmeal]

Can you tell me what you believe those verses to mean thanks

Jesus Christ shall return to gather us up, both those who have died in Christ and those who are alive at the time of our gathering unto him

 

[beloved57]

Well, then it is up to each individual to choose to believe

False statement not in scripture !

 

[beloved57]

It does make sense but could be written much better

Those who want to go beyond receiving salvation, those who want to use that salvation to do the works that God prepared for us to do will understand. Ephesians 2:10

It doesnt make sense to me !

 

[Danoh]

Nice speech about how great you are, and how unlearned I am, but that doesn't explain what Paul means?

So what do you believe that Paul means in those verses you have quoted about Christ Jesus being evidently set forth among the Galatians, crucified among them?

One, I meant ALL I said NOT just what your inability in your flesh obviously focused on.

I meant that we are each weak in one thing that another might not be strong in, just as we are each strong in another thing that another might not be strong in.

I'll tell ya something - if that is your version of the Spirit's enablement; ya might want to revisit your understanding.

For it has obviously left you a bit vulnerable not only to reading into a thing as having been an intended slight, but without much by way of the ability to remain unscathed by its supposed slings and arrows.

You really need to reflect on that.

As for the other - "about about Christ Jesus being evidently set forth among the Galatians, crucified among them?"

That is nothing more than a thing like this...

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

And this...

17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

And this...

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:

And this...

1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

And this...

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Thus, this...

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

And this...

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Verse 5 in Galatians 5 there, being nothing more than this....

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

And so, on...for there is more on this in Scripture, than your notions about what this is referring to...

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Evidently you mean well, but so did that one individual in that parable of the talents, in Matt. 25, who was nevertheless simply...dead wrong.

In which case I must say "thanks - but no thanks" to your false positive.

Romans 5:6-8 towards you.

 

[Danoh]

You have a problem with scripture?

I repeat scripture to myself so it becomes a part of me.

I find that any passage I have invested time in, taking it apart; examining its every word; use of a semi-colon or what have you; comparing it with other words and passages, tends to result in my having ended up having memorized the passage without ever having set out to.

And I have found this common occurrence in many a MAD I have personally dealt with over the years, who really knows his or her doctrine beyond merely having read or heard "about" it somewhere.

You might try this great approach, Oat.

And there is nothing new under the sun about it...

"Alright, boys and girls, as part of our goal of better understanding Biology from the inside out; today we will be dissecting a frog..."

"Ew!" - that cute freckle faced red head know it all who was ever sticking out her blue tongue at me (the result of those blue freeze pops she was ever sucking on during recess) - God bless er, wherever she ended up in life... :chuckle:

 

[oatmeal]

False statement not in scripture !

That is your uninformed opinion