marhig
Well-known member
Yes, walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, that's my point, many who say that they are saved are fulfilling the lusts of their flesh so how does that work?
ECT Who is not saved?
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heir
TOL Subscriber
Paul said that to people who had a faith, but not the mutual faith of both him and them. They had never heard Paul's gospel. The only way to continue in God's goodness would have been for them to be established into the Body of Christ by Paul's gospel...Have you trusted the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV as the ONLY means by which you can be saved? Trust the Lord now!
heir
TOL Subscriber
You couldn't wait to correct what I put forth as usual by saying 1 John applies which it doesn't. It is about a specific believing "on the name" (the WHO of Jesus Christ) that won't save anyone today. The gospel that is the power of God is the WHY of the cross (the gospel that saves today 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), was not preached by John which was the point and still is even though you continue to try and intercept the point...you fumble.
heir
TOL Subscriber
The gospel of our salvation has nothing to do with what we do or don't do (Romans 4:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV), but what God hath done (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV). It cannot be lost because of something we do or don't do. You preach an other gospel (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV) every time you add works of the flesh to our salvation (Titus 3:4-7 KJV) not to mention that you testify you have never trusted the Lord believing His work (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is sufficient to save you even though that is the only good news that will save you. How sad.
marhig
Well-known member
Paul is speaking to people already grafted in, so they are gentiles who know God. And Paul is also saying that they must remain in God's goodness or they too will be cut off. Even Paul himself believed that he could be cast away if he didn't remain in God's goodness and fight his flesh and keep his body under subjection to do the will of God.
1 Corinthians 9
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Also, I trust in Jesus Christ and the gospel which he preached, the gospel which the apostle Paul also preached. There is only one gospel of God, not two.
Those that are being saved are doing so by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and believing in his gospel, through faith by the grace of God.
Also
Romans 1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto THE GOSPEL OF GOD,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; TO THE JEW FIRST, AND ALSO TO THE GREEK.
So it's one gospel, and it's the same gospel for the Jews and the gentiles.
marhig
Well-known member
Paul preached the same gospel that Jesus preached. One gospel to every creature.
Mark 16
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Colossians 1
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister
Mark 16
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Colossians 1
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes, they were already graffed in, but they were not in the church the Body of Christ as they had never heard the gospel of Christ. Hence, the letter to the Romans!
heir
TOL Subscriber
The only way they could continue in God's goodness as Israel had been cut off, was to be established according to Paul's gospel...Romans 16:25 KJV Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
And FYI, no one here is graffed into anything...We are baptized by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) when we trust the Lord believing Paul's gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).
heir
TOL Subscriber
"one gospel" is a made up term from a religious, denominational system that wishes to hide the gospel that was before a mystery and that is the gospel that is the power of God to save any and all who will believe it. Won't you (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Nope. It's not the same gospel. If it was, the end would have come...
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Paul's gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) was a mystery (Romans 16:25-27 KJV) before he got it by revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV) and Paul tells us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). Have you trusted the Lord believing it alone to save you?
:rotfl:
You're killing me, you know that; you really are.
Your above is once more as much absolute nonsense on your ever insolent part, as your various errors on Romans, etc.
I never said that passage in 1 John applies in the same way - rather that the PRINCIPLE it is both going by and expressing does - the PRINCIPLE that one CAN know from Scripture both ABOUT eternal life and that they HAVE eternal life.
And I barely post to you anymore.
Though I am sure you and your pals would just love it if things could simply go back to when no one on TOL really knew before I came along to point out to you and others on TOL in general that neither your hybrid of where Acts 9 studies things out with where the Acts 28 Position erroneously does is not actually the Acts 9 Position, any more than your collective insolence with anyone who disagrees with your views is - it is instead your erroneous insolence and your hybrid of those two Positions into "another which is not another" at all.
Get a clue, already hybrid :chuckle:
Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.
oatmeal
Well-known member
We must keep the receiving of the gift of salvation, a gift from God, separate from what we do with it after we have it.
Receiving a birthday gift from a friend does not guarantee that you will use it
Receiving the gift of salvation does not guarantee that we will walk, ie, conduct our life, worthy of God.
That is a learning, a growth process. which most denominations are not well equipped to teach.
What is the first thing that the apostles did after receiving the gift of pneuma hagion/salvation on the day of Pentecost.
They spoke in tongues like they were instructed to by Jesus Christ
That is the basis of walking by the spirit.
Now, just because someone is born again does not mean that they will live accordingly, they should, but most do not.
They get talked out it, or never learn what it takes to grow up into him who is the head of the body, Christ.
They do not lose their eternal life, but do lose out on the rewards and crowns they could have earned by walking worthy of God.
God gave us the gift of eternal life, God first loved us, we should love Him back by keeping his commandments
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heir
TOL Subscriber
:blabla:
Your hybrid of those two approaches is the actual :blabla:
And then some.
I read that stuff on Galatians you misled that one newbie in the "MAD" into - boy are you clueless in your "study" approach - what - a - mess.
As if yours and STP's various other Romans thru Philemon errors were not bad enough.
You guys need to contact the BBS or something; you each have really lost your way.
I mean this. I am not merely giving you and your confused pals in these issues a hard time just for the heck of it, or what have you...
Rom. 5: 6-8.
marhig
Well-known member
Sorry but I don't agree with that, those truly born of God will have the Holy Spirit within, and if they have the Spirit, then he will be helping them to overcome their flesh and their sins. We can't say that we are born of God, have the Holy Spirit, and then ignore it, go against God and live how we please, this is not how we show that we love God, and it's putting out flesh before him, God won't be mocked. God won't let his son see corruption, and he won't let his Spirit stay in a vessel that chooses to stay unwashed and dirty. If we truly have the Spirit then we should be being cleansed from the inside out by the washing of the water of the word. We are to be doers of the word and not hearers only. Too many try to lick themselves clean and say they are ok, but the real cleansing begins within, where the heart is circumcised, and it is then shown outwardly in their lives .
How can we bring Christ to others if we love our flesh first? Others will see our flesh not the life of Christ, and if we don't live by the will of God, then there will be no fruit of the Spirit because God won't be able to use us if we are loving our life before him.
Jesus said, if anyone will come after him, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow him. that those who shall save their lives will lose it and those who are willing to lose their lives for his sake and the gospels, shall save it. And trying to save our lives is to live by our will and not by the will of God putting ourselves and our lives first. We should be willing to lay down our lives for Christ's sake and for the sake of others and live by the will of God and bring Christ to them.
As the apostle Paul says, not me but Christ in me, Paul was living by the will of God to bring the word of God and the life and love of Christ to others with the hope that they will listen and believe and turn to Christ Jesus for salvation.
marhig
Well-known member
Paul preached the gospel of Christ, I don't agree with you heir, I listen to the words of Jesus. He said my words are Spirit and they are life and my sheep hear my voice. And the word that Jesus spoke is the word of God, and his word is for all of us and I hear his voice and I hear him in Paul also.
There is only one gospel, the gospel of God and Jesus and Paul preached that gospel, and Jesus lived it our perfectly and brought us a new and living way showing us how to live before God, and he is our perfect example.
marhig
Well-known member
The revelation of the mystery is Christ in you. And if Christ is in us, then he will be helping us to overcome. Paul's gospel is the gospel of God, which is the gospel that Christ Jesus preached, the gospel that Paul was made a minister of.
There is only one gospel of God.
And if we're not grafted in, then we are not a branch, and we don't belong to the root that feeds us, and we won't be producing the fruit. Those who are of the body of Christ are grafted in through faith, and they are producing the fruit of the Spirit which the branches who were cut off should have brought forth, but because of the hardness of their hearts they were cut off, but there is still hope for them through Christ. But we can't produce the fruit of the Spirit without Christ Jesus who is in his those who truly belong to him.
And in that understanding you will obviously remain until you are "fully persuaded" in your "own mind" otherwise.
For until then, to you, any other persuasion "is not of faith" - to you "it is sin."
Fully understandable.
I hear ya loud and clear.
But none of this that I have just now pointed out automatically justifies your view as being actually sound, or not.
One's view is not sound just because one thinks it is.
Acts 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Scripture is chockful of individuals who just knew, just knew, just knew, just knew in their gut til the cows come home, that they they were being sound - individuals who it turned out were not.
Some, rabidly, if not even viciously so...
John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
Case in point...
Acts 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
How EXACTLY do you KNOW marhig, you are not off in what it is you obviously believe yourself fully persuaded in your own mind about?
What is YOUR litmus test.
You can't claim "the Spirit led" you to your views - for in one way or the other EVERYONE on here asserts that much, where their views are concerned.
What's left then, as a standard of some better measure of objectivity, or litmus test that is hopefully a bit more objective in its application than this that all assert is their standard in one way or another, and yet that there are very obvious resulting differences in understanding between people...is undeniable.
Question is, are you willing to allow yourself that kind of being backed up into a corner, that you might then actually force yourself into actually consider that perhaps you may not be knowing "the way of God more perfectly" like you are asserting you know.
What is your actual litmus for knowing when or when you are not... actually being sound?
As always, Rom. 5: 6-8 towards you.
marhig
Well-known member
My litmus test is this.
I'm getting help to overcome my flesh by the power of the Spirit and God has changed my heart. I'm a totally different person to what I was before I knew God. So I know what I believe is the truth, because I know that God is with me, guiding me and teaching me and showing me by sin ever day and I couldn't do it without him. And through Christ he's strengthening me. I also know that there is only one gospel, the gospel of God which Christ Jesus and all the apostles preached.
Spoken like a good, but probably lost Mormon, or a good, but probably lost Buddhist, or a good, but probably lost Bahai, or a successful, but probably lost member of the AA, and so on...
You'd do well to seek out a much more objective litmus test.
Sincerely,
Rom. 5:6-8 towards ya.