ECT Was Jesus God. . . .

[intojoy]

God entered our world
God added our humanity
God took our sins
God died our death
God was raised for our life
God will come again for our glorification
God did all of this in the Person of God the Son.

We take this on faith by what is written in the bible.
We do not take human deductions such as those by the anathema crowd, the untouchables, those dedicated and set apart for total destruction.

 

[Cross Reference]

God entered our world
God added our humanity
God took our sins
God died our death
God was raised for our life
God will come again for our glorification
God did all of this in the Person of God the Son.

We take this on faith by what is written in the bible.
We do not take human deductions such as those by the anathema crowd, the untouchables, those dedicated and set apart for total destruction.

Naah! Read the accounts again __ for the first time.

Hint: Only a sinless human could redeem man. If God could have done it then why Jesus __ and as a baby?

 

[nikolai_42]

When was Jesus sent into the world?

Approximately 2000 years ago.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:5-8

 

[Cross Reference]

Approximately 2000 years ago.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:5-8

OK. I know when He was born but when was He sent into the world? When did Jesus begin to reveal His Father? What you are speaking of above is the Word in whose image man was made. We really don't know if He had a name, what Name He went by, do we?

 

[oatmeal]

The leaders of Israel agreed, in large part, where the prophets came from. They agreed that Elijah was to come and restore all things. All the prophets were sent from God. And yet, to be said the least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than any prophet? John said he wasn't worthy to untie the thong of Jesus' sandal. So what does that make Him?

The leaders could even agree (sometimes....or to some degree) that John was from God. But unless you want to say Christ was not unique then where He was from is a much heavier question than simply who sent Him.

That makes Jesus a greater man than John the Baptist

Jesus did not have holy spirit until his baptism when the spirit descended upon him like a dove.

John had spirit from his mother's womb. That is greater than any other man in that distinction.

However, Jesus Christ obeyed God completely and completely did his Father's will.

 

[nikolai_42]

OK. I know when He was born but when was He sent into the world? When did Jesus begin to reveal His Father? What you are speaking of above is the Word in whose image man was made. We really don't know if He had a name, what Name He went by, do we?

I don't see a distinction. There may have been what are called theophanies in times before His manifestation, but part of the purpose of His earthly ministry was to reveal the Father. I believe that was happening well before His baptism. The episode of separation from His earthly father and mother gives a glimpse into that, I think. So I see it all centered in those 33 years (with the obvious emphasis being on the final 3).

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:6-10

Even at 12, being about His "Father's business" He was speaking His Father's words.

 

[jamie]

​

I don't know if you're arguing or not, and if you are, bearing in mind John 3:16, you just corrected yourself in your own post.

"...His only begotten Son..."

Israel was not begotten by God, Israel was adopted by God.

 

[Cross Reference]

I don't see a distinction. There may have been what are called theophanies in times before His manifestation, but part of the purpose of His earthly ministry was to reveal the Father. I believe that was happening well before His baptism. The episode of separation from His earthly father and mother gives a glimpse into that, I think. So I see it all centered in those 33 years (with the obvious emphasis being on the final 3).

You can believe that but it doesn't make it fact. More in fact is it a stretch.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:6-10

Even at 12, being about His "Father's business" He was speaking His Father's words.

Hint: it takes a Jewish boy 30 yrs to become a priest. Not before that time was Jesus sent into the world. Luke 4:1 concurs with this, esp. v1 and v14.

 

[nikolai_42]

That makes Jesus a greater man than John the Baptist

Jesus did not have holy spirit until his baptism when the spirit descended upon him like a dove.

What was He doing at 12 years of age?

John had spirit from his mother's womb. That is greater than any other man in that distinction.

However, Jesus Christ obeyed God completely and completely did his Father's will.[/QUOTE]

John the Baptist's parents were blameless according to the scriptures. John may have been filled with the Holy Spirit from birth, but to say Jesus wasn't is speculation at best...and from His life it seems reasonable to say He was. Especially since the Holy Spirit was His "biological" father. This question of origins goes deeper than place or even manner of birth. That's what Jesus was saying when speaking about being born again.

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
John 3:31

John the Baptist said that. He certainly was not above all. He even had doubts about who Jesus was after being tossed in prison and being left there...

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:23

 

[Cross Reference]

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. He was indwelt by the Holy Spirit and at the age of 30 yrs was baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Here: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17 (KJV)

"With You" is Jesus speaking of Himself.

"In you" is referring to the indwelling per John 20:22.

"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." Luke 24:49 (KJV)

"Upon you" is referring to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit of Pentecost.

The only 3 manifestations of the Holy Spirit revealed in those scriptures.

For Jesus, the promise was given Him in v1 of Luke 4. It was fulfilled in v14. In-between was the test that would determine everything.

So it is purposed for the born again Christian. No detours or short cuts in any of it.

 

[oatmeal]

What was He doing at 12 years of age?

John had spirit from his mother's womb. That is greater than any other man in that distinction.

However, Jesus Christ obeyed God completely and completely did his Father's will.

John the Baptist's parents were blameless according to the scriptures. John may have been filled with the Holy Spirit from birth, but to say Jesus wasn't is speculation at best...and from His life it seems reasonable to say He was. Especially since the Holy Spirit was His "biological" father. This question of origins goes deeper than place or even manner of birth. That's what Jesus was saying when speaking about being born again.

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
John 3:31

John the Baptist said that. He certainly was not above all. He even had doubts about who Jesus was after being tossed in prison and being left there...

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:23[/QUOTE]

It is easy to reach your conclusion

, but to say Jesus wasn't is speculation at best...and from His life it seems reasonable to say He was. Especially since the Holy Spirit was His "biological" father.

However, you have no evidence

Since Jesus tempted in all way as we are, he had to be subject to those temptations even as we were before we had spirit. I John 4:13

If he always had spirit he could not have been tempted like we were

 

[nikolai_42]

It is easy to reach your conclusion


However, you have no evidence

Since Jesus tempted in all way as we are, he had to be subject to those temptations even as we were before we had spirit. I John 4:13

If he always had spirit he could not have been tempted like we were

What evidence do you have that that is true?

 

[oatmeal]

What evidence do you have that that is true?

Hebrews 4:15

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Matthew 3:16-17

Acts 10:38

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Until God anointed Jesus with holy spirit and with power , he did not have holy spirit nor power

 

[steko]

I can reach God, can't you?

Does God ignore you because you are not God?

Why can't you simply believe that Jesus is not just a man, but a just man that is the son of God?

Then....you don't need a mediator.

 

[nikolai_42]

Hebrews 4:15

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Matthew 3:16-17

Acts 10:38

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Until God anointed Jesus with holy spirit and with power , he did not have holy spirit nor power

Sorry...I should have been more specific. What evidence do you have that this is true :

If he always had spirit he could not have been tempted like we were

 

[Cross Reference]

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/QUOVER


When alive on Earth, when was Jesus ever called by any of the those titles?

When did John know that he could write this about Jesus:

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. . . . . . And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-5,14 (KJV)

Was it at the birth of Jesus? His 33+ yrs of life on Earth? Or, on the day of Pentecost when all was complete for His followers to be fully equipped before they began their respective ministries in the gifts of the Spirit?

Much of our understanding Jesus Christ hinges on getting the time right when speaking of who he was and what He became without feeling we have violated the scriptures or blasphemed God.

 

[oatmeal]

Then....you don't need a mediator.

I am exhorted to go to the throne of God boldly.

Hebrews 4:16

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

There is no dispute that I need both mercy and grace to help in time of need, that is indisputable.



Having a mediator is not about obtaining mercy and finding grace to help in time of need.

the mediator settles disputes, he heals rifts, brings two parties together. Jesus Christ, being human and having obeyed God perfectly knows two things that make him the perfect mediator

1. He knows perfectly the benefits of believing God and therefore expects that we learn and work to believe God

2. He knows what it is to be tempted in every way, thus he can empathize with our sins and shortcomings

The man Christ Jesus knows God from believing God and he knows men because he is man. He knows what it takes to mediate between God and men.

I Timothy 2:5

 

[oatmeal]

Sorry...I should have been more specific. What evidence do you have that this is true :

You were never tempted before you became a Christian, you never sinned before you were a Christian?

All men are tempted whether they have received the gift of the Holy Spirit or not.

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

If you are correct that Jesus is God, why would Jesus/God, who is spirit, John 4:24, have to anoint himself, who is spirit if Jesus is already spirit, not flesh and bones.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus is not a spirit, but God is. John 4:24

Jesus was anointed with holy spirit and power because he did not have it.

Acts 10:38

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Who anointed Jesus of N? Did he anoint himself? or did God anoint him?

 

[Cross Reference]

How anyone could believe Jesus wasn't conceived by the Holy Spirit, was full of Him before being endued with power upon Him to function in His mission as He did is, beyond me.

Jesus was a Spiritual "trail blazer", "first of first fruits" of the those indwelt by the very same Holy Spirit who would follow in His steps, would enjoy by so great a salvation as purposed to be in the Father. To the indwelt Jesus exhorted , 'Don't leave Jerusalem without the power to function'. (Luke 24:49)

 

[oatmeal]

How anyone could believe Jesus wasn't conceived by the Holy Spirit, was full of Him before being endued with power upon Him to function in His mission as He did is, beyond me.

Jesus was a Spiritual "trail blazer", "first of first fruits" of the those indwelt by the very same Holy Spirit who would follow in His steps, would enjoy by so great a salvation as purposed to be in the Father. To the indwelt Jesus exhorted , 'Don't leave Jerusalem without the power to function'. (Luke 24:49)

What is your specific points here?

God is spirit, Jesus is a man.

Only John the Baptist had spirit from his mother's womb, no one else, not even Jesus Christ.

For Mary to have been Jesus' biological mother, she had to have contributed the egg that was fertilized by a sperm.

That sperm had to be human for the egg to become fertilized, it was not a spiritual sperm, even though the Holy Spirit, God, put it there

Genesis 1 everything after its kind, with seed within itself.

Both sperm and the egg that became the son of God was human.

The distinguishing characteristic of the sperm is that God provided it, by forming it, and/or making it and/or creating it in Mary.

It was a sperm with perfect and dominant characteristics as Adam would have had.

He did not have spirit upon him until his baptism when the spirit from God descended upon him like a dove. That is when Jesus started doing spiritual works, for only with spirit can a person demonstrate spiritual power, ie, walk by means of the spirit. Galatians 5:16-17