Is Jesus God now?
ECT Was Jesus God. . . .
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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Is Jesus God now?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Never was, never will be
Was a man, is a man. I Timothy 2:5 our one mediator is the man.
A mediator between finite man and infinite GOD must be able to reach both parties. Someone who is just a man can only reach man.
Failure to recognize this results from the failure to recognize just how Holy and unreachable the true GOD is.
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Job 9:33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
A 'Jesus', who is not true Deity, cannot lay his hand on both.
Without a true 'daysman', we are cut off.
oatmeal
Well-known member
I can reach God, can't you?
Does God ignore you because you are not God?
Why can't you simply believe that Jesus is not just a man, but a just man that is the son of God?
Yes, we know God did miracles and wonders and signs by the man Jesus.
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know."
Cross Reference
New member
. . . And is not this same man's life to be propagated in and from the lives of His born again disciples?
As I posted in another thread by Oswald Chambers: "Our Lord never patches up our natural virtues, he remakes the whole man on the inside." __ if we, who are born again, allow Him.
Then you'll never see Him
Born again?
“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (Jesus)
I can't come and go like the wind so I guess I'm not born again if born is the proper term.
Cross Reference
New member
I hope your condition isn't permanent and you will soon find a fix.
I suspect you can't come and go like the wind either. Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
The acid test of being born again is to run as fast as you can to a wall and see if you pass through it. If you don't you are still flesh and if you do pass through it you have been born again of the Spirit.
Cross Reference
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nikolai_42
Well-known member
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?
Luke 4:17-22
These men were not born again - they could not get past Jesus' natural genealogy. They were "earthly minded". They recognized His "gracious words" but didn't know where He came from. All they could see was a man who used to be the child son of Joseph. Likewise, these listeners :
Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
So there was a division among the people because of him.
And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him.
Then came the officers to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?
The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.
Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived?
Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?
But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.
Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)
Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 7:40-52
They couldn't even get His earthly birthplace straight!
And further evidence :
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Matthew 7:28-29
The very ones who were supposed to have scriptural authority didn't have the authority this "man" had. The scriptures were His in a way that they were no man's. They weren't born again because they couldn't "hear" that He came from heaven. And they didn't know where He was going. Jesus told that to them straight out :
The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
John 8:13-15
nikolai_42
Well-known member
I believe Jesus had to be Divine. If sinlessness was all that was needed, then the spotless lamb itself (i.e. the sacrificial animal of the Old Covenant) could take away sin. I believe Jesus' words at the age of 12 indicate that this was something that was upon Him already. Why else would the angels proclaim what they did at the birth of a baby boy? What import (if He were not Divine eternally) is the manner of His conception? That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Simeon saw what was of God from the beginning. He saw that which bore (and was) that One who had glory with the Father before the earth was. No candidate Christ, He.
Cross Reference
New member
Very good insight! I would never have thought to explain the new birth by that example of Him. Sortta says something that makes a distinction between the "just saved" crowd who wrongly accuse those who are truly, born again.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
There is a post in another of your threads that gets to baptism. In researching, I noticed that Jesus (His disciples, actually) baptized more disciples than John did (and John's response to the rabble rousers was quite good). But even baptism in water is something which trips many up today. You aren't saved unless you are water baptized - or in the right way. It's the same principle. Many (most?) of those who were baptized as disciples of Jesus did not follow along with Him. Most of them turned away, I suspect (see John 6 and how it ends up). But they all were baptized...
Used to be? To this day Joseph is Jesus' step dad and Jesus is required to address Joseph as sir in the resurrection. Joseph will always be Jesus' parent, the one who raised him. Children should respect their elders.
Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. (Proverbs 22:6)
Jesus' parents did a fine job and Jesus turned out just fine.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Where did Jesus come from?
Cross Reference
New member
Interesting, isn't it? Makes one wish God was an indian giver.
Having said that and with regards to myself, I am so glad He isn't and that His Love has been greater than my sin for which I will be eternally grateful. Having said, I now know I dare not forsake Him.
Obviously, it is a Spiritual application, not etched in stone, that can be violated and has been by many who have trampled under foot the cross of Christ. (cf Heb. 6:4-6)
oatmeal
Well-known member
your comments are ridiculous.
I do not need to see Jesus Christ to make him lord.
I do not need to see the invisible God to believe His word.
Blessed are those that believe but have not seen
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
I am blessed.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Romans 5:15 KJV
should clarify the issue
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
The payment was a man, not God