Right, you cannot know (experience) Grace and concomitantly reject it
toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
- Status
Right, you cannot know (experience) Grace and concomitantly reject it
Do you believe in bodily resurrection/glorification? Was Jesus the Word made flesh, yet sinless?
Buzzword
New member
I treat being "saved" as merely the choice to begin a process.
Most churchy types call the process "sanctification."
The process transforms a person, to steal a metaphor from C.S. Lewis, from a tin soldier into a real person, from a lifeless image of life into life itself.
The process isn't complete until the flesh no longer holds any influence over us, which most Christians believe doesn't happen until the physical body dies.
During the process, the mistakes made before starting continue to happen, except that now we are more aware that they ARE mistakes, and can begin working to shed the personal flaws which led to them.
Each of us has control via the will over how efficiently the process works.
We have a choice in every moment, succeeding in moving through the process or not, whether or not we will CONTINUE the process, or decide we were perfectly happy without this painful system of transformation and remain tin soldiers forever.
Only after choosing to cease the process altogether are we required to start over.
Fortunately, God is willing that NONE, no matter how many times they've started and stopped the transformation, should perish, and thus will never turn away a repentant tin soldier.
Most churchy types call the process "sanctification."
The process transforms a person, to steal a metaphor from C.S. Lewis, from a tin soldier into a real person, from a lifeless image of life into life itself.
The process isn't complete until the flesh no longer holds any influence over us, which most Christians believe doesn't happen until the physical body dies.
During the process, the mistakes made before starting continue to happen, except that now we are more aware that they ARE mistakes, and can begin working to shed the personal flaws which led to them.
Each of us has control via the will over how efficiently the process works.
We have a choice in every moment, succeeding in moving through the process or not, whether or not we will CONTINUE the process, or decide we were perfectly happy without this painful system of transformation and remain tin soldiers forever.
Only after choosing to cease the process altogether are we required to start over.
Fortunately, God is willing that NONE, no matter how many times they've started and stopped the transformation, should perish, and thus will never turn away a repentant tin soldier.
Most of the time I feel like I've got my "ticket" to Heaven, that I'm saved and eternally secure. Then other times I feel more like the Luke 18:13 guy. Not so much begging for a re-salvation, but more of a cry of gratitude toward God for his grace. Cause I really need it. Everyday there is less and less about me that I would dare boast about, but more and more about God.
Hardly. Being saved in when one has the gift of the Holy Spirit, not the beginning of the process and not the end, as our Christian walk begins fully, yet we walk as new creatures saved in Grace.
I've always wondered how that worked because I know a few people that claim to be Christians or claim to have repented yet still do things that are sins. Isn't part of repenting not sinning anymore? I guess it's one thing when you have a moment of weakness, but isn't to continue to knowingly sin a little different?
Some say these are 'carnal Christians', but is there really such a beast?
I said 'yes', dopey. I say 'no' to OSAS, but that was not the question. Unbelief/apostasy is a unique sin. Get over it.
Denying OSAS does not mean everyone goes to hell (your logical fallacy is over-generalization and non-sequitur). Arminians reject OSAS yet are consistent to say that Christians, even those who struggle with sin are saved. Those who reject Christ (whether they once believed or not) are the ones condemned.
Your straw man is another hit on your credibility.
OSAS and non-OSAS can share your testimony. What is your view and why?
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
What my sister Nang said! I did not save myself, so I am certainly not going to lose myself.
AMR
No one can be totally free from sin, for Jesus said 'be like my Father' and the law teaches the meaning of sin. The gift of Grace helps us sin less and we are forgiven.
Some call themselves 'Christian', but they are much like moose lodge members who never attend, or they are those who attend, yet do so without any self motivation. This is why some think they will get to heaven if they do not sing, dance, smoke or drink.
What my sister Nang said! I did not save myself, so I am certainly not going to lose myself.
AMR
This is based on Calvinistic assumptions that wrongly think conditions are causation. Just because we freely receive or reject Christ/gospel does not mean we save ourselves (straw man). Just because some fall away or apostasize does not mean they lose themselves nor save themselves (non-sequitur).
Memento Mori
New member
Why not?
sdgareth
New member
We are born sinners and will die sinners, we will always sin either through thoughts or actions.
Jesus was the only one who ever lived that was free of sin
Confess your sins to the Lord through Jesus Christ our intercessor and through God's Grace and Mercy you will be forgiven.
Rom_2:15
They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
So is a baby, just born and has not done anything but take his first breath of air, a sinner?
This doesn't answer the question.
And what version are you quoting from?
who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
-Romans 2:15 NKJV
That really doesn't look the same to me.
I quote,
I quote,
My brother-in-law's famous line "I just gave up smoking, drinking and women! The funeral is Tuesday!"
There are people who presume to speak for God that would take all joy out of our lives.
I believe that God wants us to have an abundance of the good things which He has provided for our use.
I find it interesting that in Genesis God commands that music be part of man's worship. And we have an intrinsic beat in our hearts through which we respond to the tempo of music. And we are moved literally and figuratively to dance. Praise God from whom all blessings flow. peace, bybee:guitar::drum::BRAVO::upright::sinapisN::the_wave::the_wave::the_wave:
I quote,
My brother-in-law's famous line "I just gave up smoking, drinking and women! The funeral is Tuesday!"
There are people who presume to speak for God that would take all joy out of our lives.
I believe that God wants us to have an abundance of the good things which He has provided for our use.
I find it interesting that in Genesis God commands that music be part of man's worship. And we have an intrinsic beat in our hearts through which we respond to the tempo of music. And we are moved literally and figuratively to dance. Praise God from whom all blessings flow. peace, bybee:guitar::drum::BRAVO::upright::sinapisN::the_wave::the_wave::the_wave:
sdgareth
New member
sdgareth
New member
Yes a child is born innocent, yet it is born into sin, this sinful world world that we live in. All as a result of the orignial sin.
No being will die free of sin, the difference is however, if you recognise that sin and ask for forgivness and choose to walk the very difficult and often challanging walk of faith and belief in God.
Through facing your sins and acknowledging your sin to God and asking for his forgivness you will grow and mature as a Christian.
God calls the sinner to him, confess your sins and they are forgiven
His mercy is new everyday.
Many however choose the "ostrich" approach i.e. stick your head under the sand thinking that know nobody can see you (in this case, thinking that the sin is not there) whilst the whole world can see your rear end.
The above approach is "easier" to live with and less challanging. However there are no rewards.
A the end of the day it is about a relationship with God, living in his love, blessed with His Mercy and Grace.
- Status