toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 28th, 2010 10:45 AM

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
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[LindaR]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 28th, 2010 10:45 AM

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

Yes...we all stumble.

1 John 1:8 (KJV) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:9 (KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:10 (KJV) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1 (KJV) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 2:2 (KJV) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Salvation does not eradicate our sin nature...we are given a new nature. Romans 6:1-8:39 (KJV) A born again believer will not desire to continue to "live in sin" ...he/she will not become "sinless", but he/she will definitely "sin less"

 

[Seydlitz77]

If you are using "stumble" in the sense that you made a mistake or momentarily succumbed to a weakness but you are still focused on Christ and strive to repent of and forsake your wrong doing then that moment of sin would not have negative consequences on your salvation. We all slip up and that's what Christ's atonement was about.

If however someone turns their back on Christ and forsakes Him instead of forsaking the sin then they are in trouble.

 

[godrulz]

Knight's trying to start a fight, so should I take flight? Nah.

Unbelief is a unique sin, the antithesis of saving faith. Only godless unbelief persisted in unto death will lead to being unsaved (an unbeliever is a condemned sinner; an apostate, someone who falls away from truth, is also an unbeliever, a former believer; I Jn. 5:11-13 Life is in the Son, not apart from Him).

The Corinthian SAINTS had sin issues (I Cor. 5, etc.). Heb. 12 shows God disciplining believers who sin. Other passages rebuke, exhort, condemn sinning believers without denying grace in their life (e.g. I Thess 4:1-10).

I Cor. 6:9-11 contains things that believers do. There is a difference between a Christian who has isolated lapses into sin that are repented of with renewed obedience, and a godless unbeliever who habitually sins without Christ in their life and without conscience to repent and come to Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Sinless perfection views (Christians cannot sin vs should not/will not) are not a solution nor is hyper-Arminianism (one sin means you need to get saved over and over at the altar, etc.).

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

A saved person (who has by definition already been judged for his sins, in Christ) cannot be retried for his sins.

 

[godrulz]

A saved person (who has by definition already been judged for his sins, in Christ) cannot be retried for his sins.

I leave the details to the Judge (Gen. 18:25), but if someone rejects and renounces Christ and is no different than their former state of godless unbelief, they are not a believer by definition (unbelieving believer is a contradiction in terms, oxymoron).

You divorce salvation from ongoing relationship and being in Christ, the condition for eternal life (since it is in Him alone, not apart from Him I Jn. 5:11-13 present, continuous tenses). You seem to reduce it to an irreversible metaphysical change parallel to physical birth. In reality, it is a reciprocal love relationship, not an unconditional zapping. Past sins can be dealt with, but this does not preclude the possibility of heinous future sins, including blasphemy, that cannot be swept under the carpet by a holy God (judgment starts with the house of God; Ananias and Sapp were struck down; I Cor. and I Jn. has temporal judgment of believer's sin by death).

Unbelief puts one outside of Christ and is the antithesis of saving faith, so the new reality of apostasy brings in new contingencies if persisted in.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Past sins can be dealt with, but this does not preclude the possibility of heinous future sins, including blasphemy, that cannot be swept under the carpet by a holy God

And you wonder why people claim you reject the gospel of Christ.

 

[kmoney]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 28th, 2010 10:45 AM

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

I hope so, considering people will continue to sin. Although, I do find the idea that saved people will not sin to be intriguing.

 

[godrulz]

And you wonder why people claim you reject the gospel of Christ.

Do you think that a Christian or Israelite who starts to worship a Buddha statue is condoned by a holy, jealous God? Do you think that the past and future are identical? I reject Bob George, not the gospel.

 

[Town Heretic]

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

Was I bought or only rented? lain:

 

[Nang]

A saved person (who has by definition already been judged for his sins, in Christ) cannot be retried for his sins.

Agreed!

And that is why it cannot be said that Christ died for all men universally, for then Christ would have been judged for the sins of all men, and not a single soul could be retried in God's court of law.

There would be no Judgement Day or no hell.

(Of course, some Universalists believe all this, but the beliefs of Universalism do not match the teachings of Holy Scripture, do they?)

To answer the OP in "Calvinistic" language, salvation cannot be lost despite occasional sin-lapses, because the anointing of the Holy Spirit at one's point of spiritual regeneration is permanent, for He seals and preserves the elect unto the ultimate salvation of the soul. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

The specific Reformed doctrine is called "Perseverance Of The Saints" which is different teaching from the Arminian "Once Saved, Always Saved."

Nang

 

[godrulz]

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

Was I bought or only rented? lain:

There are limitations to metaphors (purchased/bought is not a wooden literalism). The analogy could be used for both sides (one can return or destroy a bought item; one can buy something on credit. If the bill is not paid in the end, it is not possessed by the buyer, etc.). A marriage metaphor would allow for divorce (sever relationship) as well as disagreements (affect intimacy).

 

[Psalmist]

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?​

Still saved? Yes. But still we do trip, stumble and fall. Deliberate? Yes and no.

I believe (there I go again) . . .

That we should examine ourselves, in the light of God's Word, and with guidance of the Holy Spirit to show us where we have sinned, and ask the Lord to forgive us our sins, and forgive others as well. Ask forgiveness, as David did, Psalm 51:1-2.

The Lord's grace is greater than all our sin. His grace is sufficient for the forgiveness of our sin. And we are forgiven.

But that brings up another point, sins omission, sins of comission, lesser sins and greater sins, lesser and greater consequences, but that is for another thread.​

 

[Nathon Detroit]

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

Was I bought or only rented? lain:

:first: POTD

 

[Lighthouse]

My flesh, wherein sin dwells, is not saved, nor has it ever been, nor shall it ever be. I am saved in Christ and in Him there is no sin. And I do not identify with my sin.

Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
-Romans 7:20

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
-Romans 8:7

My salvation is in Him and Him alone. Nothing I do in the flesh can have any impact on that.

And when you recognize jut how amazing His grace is you never want to take it for granted.

 

[Nick M]

If the answer is no as godrulz and other perverts say, then everybody will go to hell, and God will be lonely, and Satan wins.

 

[Selaphiel]

, and Satan wins.

He has already lost. Col 2:15

 

[Lighthouse]

He has already lost. Col 2:15

I'm not sure if you missed Nick's point or are trying to affirm it. Please elaborate.

 

[kmoney]

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

Was I bought or only rented? lain:

Maybe you were bought but there is an open return policy. lain:

 

[Ktoyou]

toldailytopic: If you are saved, yet you stumble (and sin) are you still saved?

Was I bought or only rented? lain:

Yes, you were bought and your bill of sale is your life in Christ. This is what James meant about faith and works. Being in Christ, leads to good works, not the other way around.:doh: