The Two Faces of the Sabbath

[Squeaky]

Absolutely! He is why we want to keep the Sabbath being Lord of it and all...His grace is why in gratitude we have a faith that compels we do His works and ways...not man made traditions to earn salvation...

Faith first then obedience...His way as He did...

Not to be saved but because we are...

I said
clefty you are working for the devil
I am suppose to remind you that nagging does more damage to church than it does good.


2 Tim 2:14-15
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(NKJ)

 

[God's Truth]

Absolutely! He is why we want to keep the Sabbath being Lord of it and all...His grace is why in gratitude we have a faith that compels we do His works and ways...not man made traditions to earn salvation...

Faith first then obedience...His way as He did...

Not to be saved but because we are...

Observing special days is worthless.

Saying obedience is somehow shameful and calling it earning salvation are terms not from God.

It is never ever wrong to obey God.

There is no right way and wrong way to obey.

 

[Samie]

Those are works and we have to do those things.

Good. You just made clear you are preaching a works-based salvation. Unscriptural.

 

[Samie]

It is wrong. We do not have to follow Jesus to any building.

I was not asking whether it is wrong to follow Jesus to any building. That's not my question.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

 

[clefty]

Observing special days is worthless.

His law is perfect not worthless...

And Paul said sabbaths still point to the good things to come...

Saying obedience is somehow shameful and calling it earning salvation are terms not from God.

Never said that...I try to keep Sabbath because I am grateful that salvation is made possible

I try to be obedient because I am desirous to do as He did and told me to do as well...

It is never ever wrong to obey God.

unless you are trying to obey God to be saved to earn your salvation...

There is no right way and wrong way to obey.

lol...so do what thou wilt?

...tell that to the Israelites who thought they could build a golden calf to worship the One that brought them out of Egypt....

 

[God's Truth]

Good. You just made clear you are preaching a works-based salvation. Unscriptural.

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Faith alone is mentioned one time in the KJV and it is to warns us of what kind of faith not to have.

See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

 

[God's Truth]

I was not asking whether it is wrong to follow Jesus to any building. That's not my question.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

Jesus didn't go to church he is the church.

Jesus always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. He taught in the temple every day. Do you follow Jesus and go to the temple every day? Jesus also taught in people's homes, on boats, at the lake, by the sea, by a well, on the Mount of Olives...

It was not just on Saturdays.

Paul preached in synagogues and in the lecture hall and the market place, and that was day by day. He also went from house to house. People also came to his house.

 

[God's Truth]

His law is perfect not worthless...

I said observing special days is worthless because that is what the Bible says.

And Paul said sabbaths still point to the good things to come...

Give the scripture.

Never said that...I try to keep Sabbath because I am grateful that salvation is made possible

You said obedience is wrong and called a works salvation.
It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus.

I try to be obedient because I am desirous to do as He did and told me to do as well...

Where did he tell you to make it wrong to obey him?

unless you are trying to obey God to be saved to earn your salvation...

See you say it again.
There is never ever a wrong time or a wrong way to obey Jesus.

lol...so do what thou wilt?

I will to obey Jesus.

...tell that to the Israelites who thought they could build a golden calf to worship the One that brought them out of Egypt....

They were worshiping the calf and not God.
We worship God by obeying Him.

 

[Samie]

Jesus didn't go to church he is the church.

Jesus always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. He taught in the temple every day. Do you follow Jesus and go to the temple every day? Jesus also taught in people's homes, on boats, at the lake, by the sea, by a well, on the Mount of Olives...

It was not just on Saturdays.

You seem to be playing blind to this verse that speaks about our Lord's custom:

NKJ Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

My question is about His custom recorded in the above verse which seems too difficult for you to answer directly with a simple Yes or No plus a bit of explanation you want to add.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

 

[clefty]

I said observing special days is worthless because that is what the Bible says.

unto salvation it is...if you feel you can earn salvation by keeping special days then that is worthless...special days are kept because one already is saved...

Give the scripture.

Col. 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Sabbath is a memorial to the creation and Creator, a sign of those sanctified by Him, and a shadow of the physical eternal rest that is yet to come in paradise. Until then, there remains therefore a Sabbath keeping for His people. Heb 4:9

You said obedience is wrong and called a works salvation.
It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus.

Where did he tell you to make it wrong to obey him?

He didn't

and show me where I said it was and I will clarify or point out you misread what I posted.

I have said I don't keep the Sabbath I merely understand it keeps me. As I understand I am His, bought with a price and saddled with His yoke which is easy and signifies I am domesticated by Him and useful in His work.

See you say it again.
There is never ever a wrong time or a wrong way to obey Jesus.

if you think you can earn your salvation by and through obedience you are mistaken...faith first and then it compels works out of gratitude...you want to

Just like marriage...you want to do the ceremony to show the love you already have...and then like the chores...you clean the house not to live in it but because you already do...and now want to do them

I will to obey Jesus.

good...halleluYah...live and love JUST AS He did...the Lord of the Sabbath asks you accept His gift from creation as it was made fo all man...

Your obedience sets you apart as you obey Him rather than man's traditions of Sunday or any day or everyday worship...just as He knew His believers would be persecuted but instructed Sabbath be kept in the times of trouble to come...

They were worshiping the calf and not God.

They thought they were worshipping God through it...not it but it's prototype...as Christians even now believe "the honour given to the image is transferred to its prototype", and that venerating an image of Christ does not terminate at the image itself – the material of the image is not the object of worship – rather it goes beyond the image, to the prototype."

Later Pharisees had added things to the word about the Sabbath to diminish it make it a burden...and now still later Christians add still more making it a false worship...

we worship God by obeying Him.

yes our fruit reveals our loyalty...we wish to do JUST AS He did...live JUST AS He did and Love JUST AS He did...your life and love would include seventh day Sabbaths as He exemplified how and why we are to do so...

No Sunday Ham here fellas...

 

[God's Truth]

You seem to be playing blind to this verse that speaks about our Lord's custom:

NKJ Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

My question is about His custom recorded in the above verse which seems too difficult for you to answer directly with a simple Yes or No plus a bit of explanation you want to add.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

The synagogue is not the temple and the synagogue is not the church you go to. The synagogues are gone and Jesus did not go to a church, he is the church. You are not obeying Jesus just because you go to a building on the Sabbath.

You have to get inside the Lord for he is the temple.

 

[Samie]

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Faith alone is mentioned one time in the KJV and it is to warns us of what kind of faith not to have.

See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

Faith with your works did not save you, brother. There is only ONE Savior. God is the ONLY Savior. And He did it through His Son, all by grace. NOT an iota of human participation.

Titus 3:4-6 4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[God's Truth]

unto salvation it is...if you feel you can earn salvation by keeping special days then that is worthless...special days are kept because one already is saved...

It is tricky to word it that way and it is still worthless. You can get together any day; or, you cannot get together any day. It does not matter. What matters is faith and obedience to Christ Jesus.

Col. 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

You are the one judging me according to observing a worthless day.
I do not live by shadows for there is no shadow in the light. I am in Jesus Christ, the light of the world.

Sabbath is a memorial to the creation and Creator, a sign of those sanctified by Him, and a shadow of the physical eternal rest that is yet to come in paradise. Until then, there remains therefore a Sabbath keeping for His people. Heb 4:9

Jesus is not the shadow. The sign is not the Sabbath. The sign was circumcision and now it is not. The sign is the Holy Spirit and can be shown by the obedience of the saved.

You said obedience is wrong and called a works salvation.
It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus.

Where did he tell you to make it wrong to obey him?

I was chastised for preaching obedience to Christ and being obedient to Jesus was called a works salvation. You go research what was said.

and show me where I said it was and I will clarify or point out you misread what I posted.

Your confusion is not my confusion. I am not going on your worthless hunt. Speak what you believe right here and right now. Tell us all whether or not you believe we have to obey Jesus to get saved and to stay saved.

I have said I don't keep the Sabbath I merely understand it keeps me.

The Sabbath day does not keep anyone. It is a day. You advocate going to church on the Sabbath. It does not matter if anyone even leaves their house.

Jesus is the Sabbath Rest and going to a building where falseness is taught is not from God.

As I understand I am His, bought with a price and saddled with His yoke which is easy and signifies I am domesticated by Him and useful in His work.

You preach against obedience. You preach that there is a wrong and right time to obey.

I preach we have to obey in order to get saved, and in order to stay saved.

You preach and defend those who think it is too hard and not good.

Obeying Jesus is the only good.

if you think you can earn your salvation by and through obedience you are mistaken...faith first and then it compels works out of gratitude...you want to

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Go study and pray some more.

Just like marriage...you want to do the ceremony to show the love you already have...and then like the chores...you clean the house not to live in it but because you already do...and now want to do them

Are you going to marry a man or a woman who does nothing right?

Think more about the analogy you use to teach others.

good...halleluYah...live and love JUST AS He did...the Lord of the Sabbath asks you accept His gift from creation as it was made fo all man...

You put a worthless day up there with God and Jesus. I think you even put that day up there above God and Jesus.

 

[TweetyBird]

Well, when Paul went to the temple, he did make sure he kept the old law temple rules.

And your proof of this is???

However, you are right, all that is dung, but Jesus said while the earthly temple stood the rejecting Pharisees and teachers of the law reinforced those laws and for the disciples to follow it.

Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and taught a new law. The old covenant was in effect until He died, but that is not what Jesus focused on. His central theme was to focus on loving God and others, not keeping the Mosaic Law.

 

[God's Truth]

Your obedience sets you apart as you obey Him rather than man's traditions of Sunday or any day or everyday worship...just as He knew His believers would be persecuted but instructed Sabbath be kept in the times of trouble to come...

You are making up things the scripture does not say. I have asked you repeatedly to show that scripture and you refuse.

They thought they were worshipping God through it...

No they did not. Give the scripture and try to prove that mistake belief of yours.

not it but it's prototype...as Christians even now believe "the honour given to the image is transferred to its prototype", and that venerating an image of Christ does not terminate at the image itself – the material of the image is not the object of worship – rather it goes beyond the image, to the prototype."

Are you a Roman or Orthodox Catholic? Did you know they do that? Did you know that is what the Hindus, Buddhists, and Pagans say? Did you know it is not even what the scriptures hint at? They did not make the golden calf to worship God. They made it to worship another god.

Later Pharisees had added things to the word about the Sabbath to diminish it make it a burden...and now still later Christians add still more making it a false worship...

Just as you do.

yes our fruit reveals our loyalty...we wish to do JUST AS He did...live JUST AS He did and Love JUST AS He did...your life and love would include seventh day Sabbaths as He exemplified how and why we are to do so...

No Sunday Ham here fellas...

There is no more separate meat and separate people and separate days.

 

[TweetyBird]

I was NOT asking whether it is His commandment for you. That is not my question.

My question was:

Is it wrong to emulate the custom of our Lord Who is the same yesterday, today and forever, to be in church (or synagogue for Jews) on Saturdays?

Just say Yes, or No. And I'll be contented with the answer. Don't keep beating around the bush, please.

I said it's not a commandment for me. What part of that do you not understand? There is absolutely ZERO evidence in the NT that we are to follow Jesus to the synagogue. Jesus did not go to church. Going to the synagogue to hear the OT read was due to the Mosaic Law while it was in effect. It does not even make sense to equal that to going to church. This is what happens when people make up things because they do not understand the Mosaic Law.

Jesus is the same in regard to Himself, His reputation, His character, His love, His judgments. Jesus/God changed His mind about His laws and commandments among other things both OT and NT. Ever hear of God repenting? He said it a bunch of times in the OT. That is changing His mind.

 

[God's Truth]

And your proof of this is???

Acts 25:8 Then Paul made his defense: "I have done nothing wrong against the Jewish law or against the temple or against Caesar."

Acts 18:18 Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sisters and sailed for Syria, accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila. Before he sailed, he had his hair cut off at Cenchreae because of a vow he had taken.

Acts 21:23
Therefore do what we advise you. There are four men with us who have taken a vow.

Acts 21:24
Take these men, purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that there is no truth to these rumors about you, but that you also live in obedience to the Law.

Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and taught a new law. The old covenant was in effect until He died, but that is not what Jesus focused on. His central theme was to focus on loving God and others, not keeping the Mosaic Law.

Jesus told his disciples to obey the old temple laws while it stood.

If anyone went in the earthly temple they had to obey its rules as enforced by the Christ rejecting Pharisees and teachers of the Law.

 

[TweetyBird]

I have NOT posted in any of my posts that Jesus said "one is supposed to emulate Me by going to a place of worship on Saturdays".

You are putting words into my mouth since you cannot show from any of my post that specific statement you accuse me of.

Then why do you keep asking me if I follow Jesus to church if I am really desiring to be obedient? Maybe you just don't get you are actually stating that if one is obedient to Jesus they will go to synagogue like He did. Your replacement of church for synagogue is like saying if one goes to synagogue they are actually going to church. They are two different religions, two different belief systems.

 

[TweetyBird]

You are back to your style of putting words into another's mouth. This time into Jesus' own mouth.

You said "Jesus agreed with them that He was not keeping the Sabbath" and that it is in John 5.

And then you showed Jesus statement saying:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

I don't see any in the red verses where He agreed with the Jews that He was not keeping the Sabbath. Can you explain how His statement that "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work" is agreeing with the Jews that He was not keeping the Sabbath?

Because Jesus stated He was working on the Sabbath, which is what the Pharisees were accusing Him of. Your inability to grasp the text is because you are unfamiliar with the Mosaic Law.

 

[TweetyBird]

Why is there any argument over this? Judaism and Christianity are two different religions.

Judaism and Christianity are two different religions. Judaism is based on Rabbinic Talmudism that rejects, denigrates, and denies Jesus Christ. Christianity is based upon the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Salvation.