The Two Faces of the Sabbath

[Samie]

The synagogue is not the temple and the synagogue is not the church you go to. The synagogues are gone and Jesus did not go to a church, he is the church. You are not obeying Jesus just because you go to a building on the Sabbath.

You have to get inside the Lord for he is the temple.

I have shown you the verse that tells us about His custom. You understand custom, right? So why does it seem too difficult for you to directly answer my question with a simple Yes or No, plus a bit of explanation you want to add?

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays? Yes or No?

Please directly respond with a Yes or a No and we'll get going. Don't be afraid. We were not given the spirit of fear, remember?

 

[TweetyBird]

Yes He did make the two one...just as He made Israel (and others amongst them) one with Him and keep the Law He kept in the garden...to rest and be refreshed

There is no refreshing in the Law of Moses. It was a yoke and burden. Jesus said His burden was light and His yoke is easy. He was not referring to the Law of Moses.

He now made Gentiles one with Israel AGAIN...as in the OT there were non Israelites who were with them...and ONE LAW for both...

Gentiles that joined Israel, got circumcised and kept the Law of Moses were part of Israel. It was not intended for the Gentile nations, ever and never. Israel is no longer the people of God. God has only one nation - those who believe on Jesus Christ for salavtion - that includes both Jew and those from all nations under heaven as one NEW man.

Here again it is the same...

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ ... So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord."

Reconciled to God through the blood of Christ, not the nation of Israel.
Broke down the wall of separation making one NEW Man, not making us part of the nation of Israel.
Fellow citizens in Christ, citizens of Heaven, of the Household of Christ, not of the household of Moses.
Being built together as one in Christ as a spiritual habitation, not becoming Israel.

Now more than ever and through and by Him we are to do as Israel does being His people for which remains a Sabbath keeping...

The NT never states this.

We are new citizens and do what was and is done by our adoptive nation not bringing in our own man made traditions...

We are all, Jew and Gentile, citizens of Heaven. Jesus Kingdom is not of this world - it is in Him and in His Kingdom.

Now more than ever we wish to be with Him and do JUST AS He did...NOT to obtain grace but because through Him we already did...

Jesus did not die so that we could keep the Sabbath according to the Mosaic Law. You have no idea what the Sabbath day requires, do you? You think you can just keep saying that you keep the Sabbath over and over again and do what you please and think you are honoring God. You don't even know what the requirements to keep it are.

 

[God's Truth]

I have shown you the verse that tells us about His custom. You understand custom, right? So why does it seem too difficult for you to directly answer my question with a simple Yes or No, plus a bit of explanation you want to add?

I answered your question. You do not obey Jesus by insisting to go to a building on a Saturday.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays? Yes or No?

You do not do it and you do not have to do it. You are doing wrong by preaching falseness. Jesus says observing days are worthless. Why do you go against Jesus?

 

[TweetyBird]

we are to work six days is also part of the fourth commandment...

Jesus worked 7 days a week.

LOL...not aware on Sabbaths something horrible was at the temple?

Jesus never said to pray that the Sabbath is to be kept.

and now the two Jew and gentile are one doing the same as He did even as in the garden...

You pray in the Garden of Gethsemane waiting to die on the cross for the sins of mankind? Whoa ....

preaching Christ and following His example in obeying the Law He gave back in the garden...a two for one deal...

Jesus said in His prayer that the disciples would be granted the ability to teach others what He taught them. It was not the Mosaic Law. They already knew it and studied it from birth.

Not one word about meeting on the first day to celebrate His resurrection supposedly to have been on Sunday...[?quote]

They met on the first night of the week, aka Sunday. That is when Jesus appeared to them for the first time. The disciples met 7 days a week, breaking bread together, praying, and encouraging each other and then they headed to the Temple to preach the Gospel - 7 days a week.

Daniel also warned there would be those who like you wished to change times and laws...

"I" didn't do anything - Jesus changed everything when the veil of the Temple rent in two, and the sacrifices were cut off, fulfilling what Daniel prophesied.

It is you that has actually changed the times and seasons, because you are not keeping the Mosaic Law according to how it was written aka what God said. oh snap ... atrol:

 

[Samie]

Because Jesus stated He was working on the Sabbath, which is what the Pharisees were accusing Him of. Your inability to grasp the text is because you are unfamiliar with the Mosaic Law.

According to you, Jesus' working on the Sabbath is your proof that He was agreeing with the Jews that He was NOT keeping the Sabbath.

Question: Is "NOT keeping the Sabbath" a transgression of the law? Yes or No?

 

[TweetyBird]

and yet the instruction was not that they be spared but that Sabbath be kept...

Jesus said nothing about the Sabbath being kept in Matt 24.

Paul kept Sabbath for worship as he copied Christ...

There is no evidence of this in Scripture, in fact, Paul said he did not keep the Law when he was with the Gentiles.

he could have met Jews after like on Wednesday...he could could have met with Gentiles on Sunday...Peter kept Kosher as he described the vision as gentile were made clean...but not to eat okay? Even 3 of the four requirements at the Jerusalem council regarded Kosher dietary laws...

The four laws were not Kosher laws. Kosher is Talmudic and did exist until long after the first century.

he cut his hair to be a skin head?

No, he did not cut his hair in Acts 21 because he was not taking a vow. Are you really that un-knowledgeable of the requirements per the Mosaic Law?

in his own defense he appealed to his Jewishness and faithfulness to his fathers custom and faith and to temple law...

The vow that the four men were taking had nothing to do with "Temple Law". These men were not Levitical priests.

Yes it was...it most certainly was attempts to slander and false witness that James even had him prove he was faithful to the law...and even still more began to falsely accuse him...

As if Paul taught the house was divided into two laws...

The law was done away with, per Paul. There are not two laws. There is only one Law - the Law of Christ which is His Gospel. The Law of Moses passed away, was set aside, was vacated per Paul.

 

[Samie]

I answered your question.

Yes you did. Just like answering with a "Yes" when I asked you "Where do you live?".

So, again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays? Yes or No?

Still afraid to give a direct response of either a Yes or a No? You're afraid of something, brother?

 

[God's Truth]

Yes you did. Just like answering with a "Yes" when I asked you "Where do you live?".

So, again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays? Yes or No?

Still afraid to give a direct response of either a Yes or a No? You're afraid of something, brother?

Do you know the meaning of not answering a fool according to his folly?

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is the one who says observing special days are now worthless.

No one is going to an earthly temple.

There is no more earthly temple because God had it destroyed.

 

[Samie]

Do you know the meaning of not answering a fool according to his folly?

No need to resort to ad hominem in a discussion, brother.

So, again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays? Yes or No?

Still afraid to give a direct response of either a Yes or a No? You're afraid of something, brother?

 

[TweetyBird]

and when you fulfill your obligation to the state in being a good driver the road laws are removed for the guy behind you?

Has nothing to do with the Mosaic Law or the Law of Christ.

When he fulfilled the prophecies? They were destroyed?

Fulfill means to accomplish fully, satisfy to the fullest, completed as God promised.

lol...so no more sin...it is used to point out sin...

The Holy Spirit convicts of sin.

And in Him its condemnation is annulled...it remains to point out sin and to condemn all in order they receive grace...

It will be used on judgement day...

Only for those who say they are keeping the Mosaic Law.

John affirms this when in revelations he saw in paradise "Here are those that keep the commandments" not of the Son but of the Father...and yes the testimony of the Son...

The word there is "entole" meaning commandments of Christ. The word "nomos" which refers to the Mosaic Law was not used in that verse. The commandments of Christ are not the Mosaic Law, but His Law >>> to believe on Him, to love God, to love one another. That is the summary of the book of 1 John.

Which was not LORD!LORD! but do My Father's will...

The will of God is to believe on His Son, Jesus Christ. John 6

Exodus 31:17 tells us that “on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed"

No it doesn't. The word "sabbath" does not mean refreshed.

So He healed and was even risen from the sleep of death on the Sabbath a testimony of the true purpose of the Sabbath...

Jesus arose on the first day of the week, aka Sunday morning. The true purpose of the Sabbath was not for the world to stay home on Saturdays, make sacrifices, and ignore the cries and pleas of the world. You are seriously mistaken if you think Jesus came to install the 7th day for u to sit on your laurels and think you are doing God a favor.

A burden to those who are not believers and grateful for ALL that was done from creation to beyond the cross...

The Sabbath was and is a burden. I was once an acquaintance with a Jewish rabbi from whom I bought kosher meat during the time I was trying to be more Jewish. He asked me why a Gentile would keep the Sabbath day. I told him because I loved HaShem and was trying to obedient to His Law. The old man shook his head and said he did not understand why anyone who is not Jewish would willingly put themselves under such a yoke and burden.

What would Jesus do? Is often asked...not eat Sunday Ham is quite clear...

What does Sunday ham have to do with anything? To make yourself appear more holy? Do you really think God cares what we eat? Have you not paid one bit of attention to what Paul [a Jewish man] said about refraining from eating certain meats? Do you realize there is not one verse in the NT that commands anyone to refrain from eating pig? In fact, God told Peter to eat unclean meat because God made it clean, not once, but THREE times.

Now go and fulfill your role as a citizen of Israel...follow Him JUST AS He lived and loved

I am not a citizen of Israel. Israel has rejected the Messiah. I am a citizen of the Kingdom of God along with all those who believe in Christ, including those Jews who choose to believe and not reject Him.

 

[God's Truth]

No need to resort to ad hominem in a discussion, brother.

I am giving you scripture. I am answering you with scripture.

So, again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays? Yes or No?

Jesus says it is worthless to observe special days.

Do you follow Jesus or not?

Do you do what Jesus says or not?

You need to answer the question.

Show the scripture that says Jesus says to go to temples and synagogues.

Show where you go every day to the temple and synagogues.

You do not do exactly as Jesus did so stop pretending you do, for Jesus does not say to go every day to a temple building that no longer exists.

He also did not tell you to pretend.

Still afraid to give a direct response of either a Yes or a No? You're afraid of something, brother?

I am not afraid of any false doctrines.

 

[God's Truth]

Samie is pretending he/she does exactly as Jesus did by going to a building on the Sabbath.

Jesus went to the earthly temple EVERY DAY, and other places too.

The earthly temple is destroyed.

How Samie thinks he/she obeys Jesus by going to a building on the Sabbath is not in the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

You say you go to a building on the Sabbath and that is in imitation of the Lord...but the Lord went EVERY DAY.

You do not do what Jesus does.

There is not even an earthly temple anymore.

You are still worldly.

 

[Samie]

Do you realize there is not one verse in the NT that commands anyone to refrain from eating pig? In fact, God told Peter to eat unclean meat because God made it clean, not once, but THREE times.

NOT the pigs on earth, sister. Those made clean were let down from heaven and brought back to heaven after Peter refused to eat any of them.

 

[TweetyBird]

Doing good works is not what Pharisees taught...although they would circumcise and pull ox out from ditches

That is not what Jesus said, however.

Emulating Him means to live and Love just as He did...which fulfills (not destroys) the OT ...

Not the OT, the new covenant - the one where believers walk in the Spirit and are given the fruit of the Spirit.

Imagine if He was an employer...He would allow His workers a day off...seventh day to be sure...see?

He didn't take the day off, why should I? Jesus did not take a day of rest. He did on the Sabbath Day what He did the other 6 days of the week. That is what we should be doing, not sitting around thinking we are holy and above others.

His Love provides a day of rest and healing...rest which is healing...

That is not right. His love provides strength and purpose to do His will 7 days a week and to be ready 24/7 to drop everything and reach out to those in need. In Christ, we enjoy His rest 24/7. That is all the rest I need. I sleep real good at night, though, thanks be to God

 

[TweetyBird]

There is not one verse in the NT that says we must preach from a boat either...but if someone were to do so they would be emulating Him...

:kookoo: you say some weird stuff, hey ....

 

[Samie]

I am giving you scripture. I am answering you with scripture.

Oh Yes. Just like answering with "Gen 1" when asked "Where is the chapter for the New Covenant?".

So, again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays? Yes or No?

 

[TweetyBird]

even the 10 were not commandments but sayings...descriptions of Yah

All of the 613, including the 10, were commandments per God.

like the Sabbath day one...stole it back from the Pharisees who had added their own traditions to it...and reminded them it was for all...sabbath was made for man not just Jews...glad we finally agree...

The Pharisees did not steal the Sabbath day. That is really funny when you think about it. I can just imagine them packing it and hiding it :chuckle:

some of the 613 were specifically for women...some where for various tribes...some you keep without trying...eat worms lately?

The Mosaic Law was given the NATION of Israel. ALL the people said they would keep ALL the commandments. ALL the people had to do their part in order for the Law to be kept. If one person failed, the entire Law failed.

So now the 10 are not God's? You feel free to kill fornicate steal lie? Well that last one is evident.

The NT clearly shows how those commandments mean something different for the believer in Christ. The 10 were originally given only to the nation of Israel, not to anyone else. The Mosaic Law was never given to the Gentile nations.

sure He did...causing fleeing would mean you were traveling beyond a Sabbathe day journey a measurement of distance used even after the cross...

Now who is quoting Pharisaic Tradition --- lol. That is not in the Mosaic Law. You should read it sometimes.

Yup He sure did...spared us from its condemnation like the woman caught in adultery and then said go and sin no more...

It is apparent that Jesus broke the Mosaic Law there. But I don't suppose you get that, do you?

 

[Samie]

GT finds it too difficult to answer with a Yes or a No. May he overcome his fear of answering with a Yes or a No to what I asked.

He fears losing in a discussion, maybe. But that is not the issue. The issue is TRUTH. If he has the truth, what is there to fear?