The Two Faces of the Sabbath

[clefty]

The Mosaic Law was the old covenant.

even the 10 were not commandments but sayings...descriptions of Yah

Jesus did not teach the Mosaic 10, however. He reiterated some of those commandments, but made them brand new. New in that they were obeyed within a different perameter and for different reasons, and for a new people group - not for the Jews anymore.

like the Sabbath day one...stole it back from the Pharisees who had added their own traditions to it...and reminded them it was for all...sabbath was made for man not just Jews...glad we finally agree...



[quite]ALL 613 applied to EVERY SINGLE ISRAELITE. The Mosaic Law Covenant was for the NATION of Israel. Not separate, but as a WHOLE. It could only be kept AS A WHOLE by the WHOLE for the WHOLE. The people said: WE WILL KEEP/OBEY ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL the commandments.[/quote] some of the 613 were specifically for women...some where for various tribes...some you keep without trying...eat worms lately?

Not all of the other commandments are accepted. I am only required to keep the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. One cannot separate out the 10 from the Law of Moses - it is ALLLLLL 613 commandments that MUST BE OBEYED as ONE PEOPLE GROUP in order for it to be kept, else, it was curse time.

So now the 10 are not God's? You feel free to kill fornicate steal lie? Well that last one is evident.

Following Him means you keep the Law...fulfill it ya dig? All of it if you follow Him JUST AS He did...

Jesus absolutely and categorically did NOT say to pray that the Sabbath be kept. You are putting words in His mouth.

sure He did...causing fleeing would mean you were traveling beyond a Sabbathe day journey a measurement of distance used even after the cross...

It was a prophecy of Christ. Jesus said He fulfilled all the OT Law and prophets.

Yup He sure did...spared us from its condemnation like the woman caught in adultery and then said go and sin no more...

Following Him does that...spares us and keeps us from sin...

 

[clefty]

The scripture does not say to pray the Sabbath is kept. Show me that scripture.

already did...your wish to deny and reject it merely reveals you

Jesus does that by the Holy Spirit.

yup...and the Holy Spirit leads you away from the law? To not follow Him? Hold another gospel?

Jesus gave us the New Law, which is the New Covenant, and is also called the New Testament.

and told us to follow Him as He did...and fulfilled the Law of both covenants bringing Jew and gentile together again...

Covenants must be followed exactly. We have a blood Covenant in Christ and both sides keep to the rules exactly.

and His rules don't counter and don't end His Father's rules you betcha! They do clarify and raise the bar higher though...

That is not what the scripture says. The scripture says since there was a change to the priesthood there is a change to the law.

yes the law changed was part of that law which applies to who is a priest...or do you imply we can steal, murder, or worship another God or the same with false worship?

All are one in Christ.

There is no more special nationality except for the Christian nationality.

yup halleluYah

Now do what a citizen of Israel did and does...live and Love JUST AS He did...

The scripture does not say that. Look more closely and you will see the truth.

of all the commandments this one is prayed that it be kept...don't pray the time of trouble doesn't come or that your life is pared but that the Sabbath continues to be kept...

Jesus Christ is the Sabbath.

is a He the new moon too?

 

[clefty]

Well, when Paul went to the temple, he did make sure he kept the old law temple rules.

However, you are right, all that is dung, but Jesus said while the earthly temple stood the rejecting Pharisees and teachers of the law reinforced those laws and for the disciples to follow it.

As if Israel was not Israel or lawless between the temples...or before there even was a temple...

His unchanging law is written in the hearts and minds of our temples...

 

[clefty]

Why is there any argument over this? Judaism and Christianity are two different religions.

The two were made one in Him...what happened?

 

[Samie]

Christian Gentiles could not go in the temple on the Sabbath, so that alone should show you that it does not matter, for Jesus made the two one. Jesus made the Jews and Gentiles one.

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

Correction, brother. Not just on the Sabbath. All days of the week, non-Jews are forbidden inside the temple.

And Yes, Jews and Gentiles, the Body, are all one in Christ, the Head.

Is it wrong for the body parts to be EMULATORS of the lifestyle of the Head Who is the same yesterday, today and forever Who is also our Shepherd and said His sheep follow Him wherever He goes?

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church on Saturdays?

 

[God's Truth]

Yes He did make the two one...just as He made Israel (and others amongst them) one with Him and keep the Law He kept in the garden...to rest and be refreshed

I am glad you agree.

He now made Gentiles one with Israel AGAIN...as in the OT there were non Israelites who were with them...and ONE LAW for both...

No, there is a New Covenant.

Here again it is the same...

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ ... So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord."

Now more than ever and through and by Him we are to do as Israel does being His people for which remains a Sabbath keeping...

I have already explained it to you patiently.
Special days are now worthless sinse Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

As if Israel was not Israel or lawless between the temples...or before there even was a temple...

His unchanging law is written in the hearts and minds of our temples...

No one is saved and a temple unless they go through Jesus.

 

[Samie]

I have already explained it to you patiently.
Special days are now worthless sinse Jesus.

Correct. Special days are worthless. Following Jesus is not.

Is it wrong to emulate our Shepherd Who is the same yesterday and today and forever in His custom of being in church on Saturdays?

 

[God's Truth]

Correction, brother. Not just on the Sabbath. All days of the week, non-Jews are forbidden inside the temple.

There is no correction. I was speaking of the Sabbath.

And Yes, Jews and Gentiles, the Body, are all one in Christ, the Head.

That is right and glad you agree.

Is it wrong for the body parts to be EMULATORS of the lifestyle of the Head Who is the same yesterday, today and forever Who is also our Shepherd and said His sheep follow Him wherever He goes?

Jesus said the earthly temple would be destroyed. Guess what? It is destroyed.

Jesus warned about the yeast of the Pharisees and of the bitter root trying to defile many.

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church on Saturdays?

Jesus didn't go to a church; he is the church.

 

[Samie]

No one is saved and a temple unless they go through Jesus.

You are teaching a works-based salvation. Repent.

Why works-based? When one is not yet saved, he is not in Christ yet. If he could not be saved UNLESS he GOES THROUGH Jesus, THEN he can only be saved after he puts into the deal his act of GOING THROUGH. His salvation is then dependent on whether he GOES THROUGH or not. Hence, works-based, instead of grace-based.

 

[Samie]

Jesus didn't go to a church; he is the church.

I did not ask whether he went to a church or not. You are answering a different question.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

 

[God's Truth]

You are teaching a works-based salvation. Repent.

Why works-based? When one is not yet saved, he is not in Christ yet. If he could not be saved UNLESS he GOES THROUGH Jesus, THEN he can only be saved after he puts into the deal his act of GOING THROUGH. His salvation is then dependent on whether he GOES THROUGH or not. Hence, works-based, instead of grace-based.

God's grace is that we do not have to get circumcised and do various external washings if we sat where another sat who had a discharge, etc. We do not have to do anything to be made clean of our sins except believe Jesus' blood cleans us of our sins after we repent of them.

 

[God's Truth]

I did not ask whether he went to a church or not. You are answering a different question.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

You are talking about following Jesus. Follow Jesus into the truth and not into a building.

 

[Samie]

You are talking about following Jesus. Follow Jesus into the truth and not into a building.

I am not asking where to follow Jesus. That's a different question.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

 

[Samie]

God's grace is that we do not have to get circumcised and do various external washings if we sat where another sat who had a discharge, etc. We do not have to do anything to be made clean of our sins except believe Jesus' blood cleans us of our sins after we repent of them.

Are repenting and believing NOT works?

 

[God's Truth]

Are repenting and believing NOT works?

Those are works and we have to do those things.


We don't have to get circumcised, do external washings, and sacrifice animals, etc.

 

[God's Truth]

I am not asking where to follow Jesus. That's a different question.

Again:

Is it wrong for us His sheep to follow our Shepherd in His custom of being in church (or synagogue for the Jews) on Saturdays?

It is wrong. We do not have to follow Jesus to any building. The earthly temple has been destroyed, and there are no more New Testament churches. Jesus is the Sabbath Rest and his body is the church.

 

[clefty]

I am glad you agree.


No, there is a New Covenant.



I have already explained it to you patiently.
Special days are now worthless sinse Jesus.

That's not what the apostles taught...Paul even says the Sabbaths are still pointing to the good things to come...

Isaiah lied when new moon to new moon and sabbath to sabbath all would worship?

 

[God's Truth]

That's not what the apostles taught...Paul even says the Sabbaths are still pointing to the good things to come...

Give scripture references.

Isaiah lied when new moon to new moon and sabbath to sabbath all would worship?

Jesus is the Sabbath Rest and we worship him all day everyday.

We worship him by living through him and he living through us.

He lives through us and we live through him by our obeying Jesus' teachings.

 

[clefty]

No one is saved and a temple unless they go through Jesus.

Absolutely! He is why we want to keep the Sabbath being Lord of it and all...His grace is why in gratitude we have a faith that compels we do His works and ways...not man made traditions to earn salvation...

Faith first then obedience...His way as He did...

Not to be saved but because we are...