The Trinity

[Nihilo]

Why doesn't Catholic mean catholic; as in universal? According to the written word of GOD; near the end the faithful towards GOD will be comprised of all nations. Universal fits, as would the word Catholic, but the Catholic Church seems quite separated from other divisions or sects of Christianity.

Catholic does mean that. Every Christian is Catholic, it's just a question of where we are, on our "way to full communion." All Christians (unless all of our sins have been expiated here in this life) will be purged in purgatory, refined into pure gold, and will live as subjects in the Trinity's eternal kingdom.

Could you define the divisions of the trinity as per what you consider salvific about the doctrine?

Sure, there is NOTHING salvific about this. Believe Easter, and you're an individual member of the communion of saints, the Body of Christ, the Church, the Elect, and Ephesians 5:25 (KJV). "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

 

[glorydaz]

Tell me, did Noah a righteous man and a preacher of righteousness who built an ark get saved for all that righteousness and ark building?

No, he was saved because he believed God. He built the ark because he believed God.

If He hadn't believed God, he never would have gotten the ark built at all....much less started to build it.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.​

 

[God's Truth]

No, he was saved because he believed God. He built the ark because he believed God.

If He hadn't believed God, he never would have gotten the ark built at all....much less started to build it.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.​

The scripture you quoted proves that we have to believe and obey.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.


God found favor with Noah because he was righteous, he did right, he was righteous.

 

[glorydaz]

I do preach it.

Believe and obey Jesus.

That is what I preach.

Right, and that isn't Paul's Gospel of Grace. Plain and simple.

Paul preaches justification by faith. Saved by Grace through Faith.

 

[God's Truth]

Right, and that isn't Paul's Gospel of Grace. Plain and simple.

Paul preaches justification by faith. Saved by Grace through Faith.

Jesus is grace.

If Paul isn't preaching Jesus, then you make Paul curse himself.

Galatians 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—


Did you read that? Who called? Jesus calls. Jesus calls us all to live in grace.


Grace from Jesus even preached after he ascended.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:4 [ Greetings and Doxology ] John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

Revelation 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

 

[glorydaz]

The scripture you quoted proves that we have to believe and obey.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

Genesis 7:1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation.


God found favor with Noah because he was righteous, he did right, he was righteous.

No, Noah did not find favour with God because he did right. God found him to be righteous because he believed God. Just like Lot in Sodom. He was counted as righteous because he believed God.


What shall we say then that Noah, as pertaining to the FLESH, hath found? He hath whereof to glory, but not before God. His wages for what he "did" was not of grace, "but of debt". Romans 4:4


Just as it was Abraham's here....

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

God counts man as righteous when they believe. God simply doesn't give man credit for those things it is his duty to do. If you can't see that from what is so clearly written, you're hopeless.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus is grace.

If Paul isn't preaching Jesus, then you make Paul curse himself.

Spoiler

Galatians 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—


Did you read that? Who called? Jesus calls. Jesus calls us all to live in grace.


Grace from Jesus even preached after he ascended.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:4 [ Greetings and Doxology ] John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

Revelation 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

:troll: :doh: :troll:

 

[glorydaz]

Right, and that isn't Paul's Gospel of Grace. Plain and simple.

Paul preaches justification by faith. Saved by Grace through Faith.

Let's see if God's UNtruth can show us Paul's Gospel. opcorn:

 

[God's Truth]

No, Noah did not find favour with God because he did right. God found him to be righteous because he believed God. Just like Lot in Sodom. He was counted as righteous because he believed God.

You can't get around it. They were righteous for doing right.

Believing in God is right, but it is not enough, one must also obey Him.


Our obedience leads us to righteousness see Romans 6:16.

We do what is right; therefore, we are righteous see 1 John 3:12.

Righteous acts see Revelation 19:8

Righteous for what we do James 2:21, 25

What shall we say then that Noah, as pertaining to the FLESH, hath found? He hath whereof to glory, but not before God. His wages for what he "did" was not of grace, "but of debt". Romans 4:4

Why did you change the scripture to say 'Noah'? You know that the scripture doesn't say 'Noah'.

The debt would be to someone doing all these works of the law:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

Just as it was Abraham's here....

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

That is about Abraham not having to do the ceremonial work called CIRCUMCISION.

God counts man as righteous when they believe. God simply doesn't give man credit for those things it is his duty to do. If you can't see that from what is so clearly written, you're hopeless.

Oh glad to hear you say we should obey.

So stop going against me when I preach obedience to Christ because faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

That is about Abraham being called righteous before doing the ceremonial works called CIRCUMCISION.

 

[God's Truth]

Let's see if God's UNtruth can show us Paul's Gospel. opcorn:

Paul preached the one and only gospel that saves and it is what Jesus taught.

Paul preaches to repent of your sins to God and have faith in Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 17:30 Therefore, although God has overlooked such times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,

 

[Nihilo]

The OLDEST Christian tradition, even though you don't acknowledge that the biblical bishops are still here today with us, teaches the definitive Trinity, which is right on topic.

There are 15 million posts in this thread. I don't accept that the Trinity and Catholicism are divergent.

And, the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. You keep emphasizing ROMAN like it means something, and you're just adding a word in there you don't need. There's a whole book of the Bible called ROMANS, and you don't seem concerned about that, why are you all upset about me dropping the word from the Catholic Church.

It does mean something:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanism

Stop trying to make mountains out of mole hills. The term is perfectly appropriate.

AMR

My comments hold.

 

[popsthebuilder]

What are they? The didache? Clement's epistles? Name some, out of curiosity.
lain: To .. not "pretend," like you made it up out of thin air, would be to lend credence to your error. What you'd appreciate, is not something that I can do.
What are the works of today's bishops that you're thinking about? And what change in doctrine?

How many times do I have to tell you that I am not speaking of the current rcc but the one in ancient times. The works that are a testament against them are also ancient.


Clement, Barnabas, Homas, yes those, but also whole books such as the book of Enoch, the Quran, the Baghavad Gita, Upanishads, Zend Avesta. And many others. None of which are more inspired than the Bible.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Catholic does mean that. Every Christian is Catholic, it's just a question of where we are, on our "way to full communion." All Christians (unless all of our sins have been expiated here in this life) will be purged in purgatory, refined into pure gold, and will live as subjects in the Trinity's eternal kingdom.
Sure, there is NOTHING salvific about this. Believe Easter, and you're an individual member of the communion of saints, the Body of Christ, the Church, the Elect, and Ephesians 5:25 (KJV). "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

If you don't believe the trinity doctrine to be salvific then why act as if it is?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Right, and that isn't Paul's Gospel of Grace. Plain and simple.

Paul preaches justification by faith. Saved by Grace through Faith.

Effectual faith.

And St. Paul doesn't contradict the Christ or any other writers of the Bible. That's only wishful thinking.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, Noah did not find favour with God because he did right. God found him to be righteous because he believed God. Just like Lot in Sodom. He was counted as righteous because he believed God.


What shall we say then that Noah, as pertaining to the FLESH, hath found? He hath whereof to glory, but not before God. His wages for what he "did" was not of grace, "but of debt". Romans 4:4


Just as it was Abraham's here....

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.​

God counts man as righteous when they believe. God simply doesn't give man credit for those things it is his duty to do. If you can't see that from what is so clearly written, you're hopeless.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

And by believe you mean carried out ones life in belief? As in lived out as if true?

 

[lifeisgood]

Lifeisgood, Why did you post that last post I made to Bright Raven? I said that to BR because he called me a foul name.

Could you provide a verse that God considers you better than anybody else? Foolish woman.

All the other things I posted that you quoted are proven with scriptures that we have to obey.

God's Truth proves you wrong. Go figure why you keep on going against God's Truth.

 

[lifeisgood]

There is only one gospel that saves.

Which you, gt, do not follow for you, gt, preach that you have to help the vicarious/finished/completed work of the Lord Jesus on the Cross of Calvary to be saved because, you, gt, preach that BEFORE you even heard the Gospel that saves, you vociferously say that you OBEYED it and when asked about it, you, gt, confess many a times over that you have NOT OBEYED the Gospel that saves. Yes, I know, you follow the gospel you created from the parts of the Bible you agree with, the other parts you simply toss it, however, the Bible says that we are to take the WHOLE counsel of God (Acts 20:27), when the whole counsel of God smacks you across the face and you believe it, then you will confess that you have not been preaching the WHOLE counsel of God. However, that is a decision that only gt can make.

 

[lifeisgood]

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

You and everybody else should be very, very, careful about what Matthew 7:21 means.

 

[lifeisgood]

I do preach it.

Believe and obey Jesus.

That is what I preach.

No, that is not what you preach, gt. You preach that BEFORE you have EVER heard the Gospel that saves, you OBEYED it, which is a total nonsense.

God's Truth contradicts you for God's Truth says that you MUST HEAR the Gospel that saves preached to you, for FAITH cometh by HEARING and HEARING by the word of God (Rom. 10:17).

 

[lifeisgood]

Tell me, did Noah a righteous man and a preacher of righteousness who built an ark get saved for all that righteousness and ark building?

Absolutely not.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.