The Trinity

[popsthebuilder]

She is just a ball of confusion.

Rom 4:9-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:9) [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (4:10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (4:11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (4:12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised. ​

She claims to believe the Bible, but does NOT believe that passage.

Paul makes it crystal clear that Abraham received the reckoning/imputation of righteousness BEFORE he did ANYTHING but believe God.

All we are called to do is believe. Faith is effectual and belief is living according to belief as truth.

 

[Pierac]

So you are saying Paul went against the author of Hebrews?

Paul says Abraham was righteous BEFORE CIRCUMCISION, before the work of circumcision.

See, it is between faith we are made clean or works of the ceremonial/purification rites.

I can hardly believe that so many have been deceived to think faith and no works means faith and no obey anything.

WOW, UNBELIEVABLE.

Just curious,

What is Works?

Can works be done with out faith? If so how?

Could both works and faith be the different side of the same coin?

I have a feeling people have a different definition of both faith and works when posting... just wanted to add this possibility to your discussion..

Paul

 

[Right Divider]

So you are saying Paul went against the author of Hebrews?

You can NEVER discuss anything without going OFF ON A TANGENT.

Paul says Abraham was righteous BEFORE CIRCUMCISION, before the work of circumcision.

No kidding. That's exactly what I said.

You have consistently said that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed AND OBEYED. But the BIBLE declared that he was imputed with righteousness BEFORE he obeyed anything.

See, it is between faith we are made clean or works of the ceremonial/purification rites.

You FALSELY create a dichotomy in the LAW.

The LAW is NOT divided into TWO CATEGORIES.

I can hardly believe that so many have been deceived to think faith and no works means faith and no obey anything.

Another LIE from the LIAR.

WOW, UNBELIEVABLE.

Indeed, your LYING is unbelievable.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 4:10
In what context was it credited? Was it after his circumcision, or before? It was not after, but before.


I am trying to help you people!!!

It is about the ceremonial works like circumcision verses not.

 

[God's Truth]

Just curious,

What is Works?

The works of the law is this:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

Can works be done with out faith? If so how?

The works of the law that I just posted COULD be done with or without faith.

Many Jews did those works WITHOUT faith and God did not like it.

Could both works and faith be the different side of the same coin?

In the old law the ceremonial/purification works CLEANED/JUSTIFIED a person; now since Jesus, only faith that his blood cleans us is what cleans and justifies us.

BUT THE FAITH alone false teachers don't understand that, they think faith and ANY obedience is a false gospel.

We are saved by believing and obeying Jesus. We no longer have to get circumcised and offer animals to sacrifice, but we still have to obey Jesus.

I have a feeling people have a different definition of both faith and works when posting... just wanted to add this possibility to your discussion..

Paul

I so welcome your questions and glad for it.

 

[Nihilo]

NOT the RCC (Roman Catholic Church).

The Catholic Church.

NOT the RCC (Roman Catholic Church).

The Catholic Church.

Incorrect.

Jesus said that no one Apostle was going to be the leader over any one of the other Apostles.

Mark 10:42-45 - And Jesus called them to him and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Peter was our servant, and his successor is too.

Yes, Peter is in the Bible, however, even Peter taught that they were simply examples for them and had no lordship (dominion) over the flock.

1 Peter 5:2-3 - Not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.

The word is "domineering." The bishops aren't domineering.

Peter would be the first one to say that he was nobody's infallible pope.

Straw man. No pope is infallible, and nor does the Church teach such.

It was included in the etc., etc., etc.

Well I mentioned it because you didn't.

BTW When the Bible talks about elders/overseers it is NOT talking about RCC priests/bishops/cardinals/popes.

Catholic Church.

Elders/overseers are simply pastors/leaders/shepherds of the flock who set the example for the flock.

No teaching?

Nothing in the Bible about the flock bowing to the bishop/elder/overseer/shepherd or kissing the ring of any of the Apostles.

There is no clear evidence for a monarchical episcopate being firmly established until the early decades of the second century.

Peter presided over the whole Church from Rome. First century.

Nowadays, we have pastors.

Pastors consecrated by pastors, consecrated by pastors, consecrated by pastors, etc., consecrated by the Apostles, the first pastors of the Church, by the imposition of hands, which is in the Bible. Timothy and Titus were pastors/bishops/elders/overseers consecrated by the Apostle Paul himself.

I noticed you did not touch the false doctrine of the RCC about Mary.

You have no ear to hear about Mary, so why bother wasting both of ours time?

=====

You should start a new thread as this thread is about the Trinity not the RCC (Roman Catholic Church).

The oldest Christian tradition that teaches the Trinity whole, plain, clear, and pure, as you believe, is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church's teaching on the Trinity is the standard teaching on this matter of faith.

 

[God's Truth]

You can NEVER discuss anything without going OFF ON A TANGENT.


No kidding. That's exactly what I said.

You have consistently said that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed AND OBEYED. But the BIBLE declared that he was imputed with righteousness BEFORE he obeyed anything.


You FALSELY create a dichotomy in the LAW.

The LAW is NOT divided into TWO CATEGORIES.


Another LIE from the LIAR.


Indeed, your LYING is unbelievable.

You are badly mistaken.

Abraham OBEYED before any faith scriptures were spoken of.

Faith and works go together.

The ceremonial/purification works are the works that no longer say.

Obeying always saved.

 

[Nihilo]

Who told you who the whore of Babylon represents? Show me the scripture that supports your view.

No one told me.
It is readily discernible from scripture.

You even asked guiltily ("who told you"; as opposed to "what makes you think") , and I already told you that it is observable based on their works, which I actually listed. The correlation is self evident.

Well that's why I asked. You either were told it by someone else, or you made it up out of whole cloth. Apparently it's the latter.

Mind you please; I am strictly speaking of the ancient roman catholic church. It also seems as if they were too responsible for the destruction and or stealing of many sacred texts, and further still; manipulating others. I am not referring to the Bible.

What "sacred texts" are not the Bible?

 

[Right Divider]

You are badly mistaken.

Abraham OBEYED before any faith scriptures were spoken of.

SCRIPTURE says that Abraham was declared righteous because he BELIEVED GOD.

Rom 4:3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.​

IT was that he BELIEVED GOD.

Faith and works go together.

Indeed they do.

The ceremonial/purification works are the works that no longer say.

We are always amazed that you think that some people were saved by ceremonial/purification works.

Obeying always saved.

No, faith always saves.

 

[popsthebuilder]

​

Well that's why I asked. You either were told it by someone else, or you made it up out of whole cloth. Apparently it's the latter.
What "sacred texts" are not the Bible?

There are many.

I do not believe the Bible to be the only writings of man inspired by GOD.

you don't have to be too quick to deduce that all writings in the bible with regards to the whore of Babylon are a reference to the blatant misdirection of the ancient rcc.

I wouldn't expect you to agree, but I would appreciate it if you didn't pretend like I made it up out of thin air.

Their works speak against them. The change in their doctrine over time shows their mutability.

 

[lifeisgood]

The Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church.
Peter was our servant, and his successor is too.
The word is "domineering." The bishops aren't domineering.
Straw man. No pope is infallible, and nor does the Church teach such.
Well I mentioned it because you didn't.
Catholic Church.
No teaching?
Peter presided over the whole Church from Rome. First century.
Pastors consecrated by pastors, consecrated by pastors, consecrated by pastors, etc., consecrated by the Apostles, the first pastors of the Church, by the imposition of hands, which is in the Bible. Timothy and Titus were pastors/bishops/elders/overseers consecrated by the Apostle Paul himself.
You have no ear to hear about Mary, so why bother wasting both of ours time?
The oldest Christian tradition that teaches the Trinity whole, plain, clear, and pure, as you believe, is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church's teaching on the Trinity is the standard teaching on this matter of faith.

Please start a new thread about the ROMAN Catholic Church for this thread is about the Trinity.

 

[lifeisgood]

All we are called to do is believe. Faith is effectual and belief is living according to belief as truth.

Not according to GT.
She says you must obey first before you even hear the Gospel.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are making up things that I did not say. You are the one who cannot be trusted.

Deceiver, dissembler
Your trousers are alight
From what pole or gallows
Shall they dangle in the night?

When I asked of your career
Why did you have to kick my rear
With that stinking lie of thine
Proclaiming that you owned a mine?

When you asked to borrow my stallion
To visit a nearby moored galleon
How could I ever know that you
Intended to turn him into glue?

What red devil of mendacity
Grips your soul with such tenacity?
Will one you cruelly shower with lies
Put a pistol ball between your eyes?

What infernal serpent
Has lent you his forked tongue?
From what pit of foul deceit
Are all these whoppers sprung?

Deceiver, dissembler
Your trousers are alight
From what pole or gallows
Do they dangle in the night?

The Liar
by William Blake

Multiple times in the past I have asked you to look at things that are on other websites and you have told me you don't even bother to click on the links because you expect everyone here to explain things in their own words.

You're a liar and a hypocrite.

You're not to be trusted.

 

[God's Truth]

Not according to GT.
She says you must obey first before you even hear the Gospel.

I say we have to believe and obey to be saved it doesn't matter which comes first.

John 7:17

 

[God's Truth]

Deceiver, dissembler
Your trousers are alight
From what pole or gallows
Shall they dangle in the night?

When I asked of your career
Why did you have to kick my rear
With that stinking lie of thine
Proclaiming that you owned a mine?

When you asked to borrow my stallion
To visit a nearby moored galleon
How could I ever know that you
Intended to turn him into glue?

What red devil of mendacity
Grips your soul with such tenacity?
Will one you cruelly shower with lies
Put a pistol ball between your eyes?

What infernal serpent
Has lent you his forked tongue?
From what pit of foul deceit
Are all these whoppers sprung?

Deceiver, dissembler
Your trousers are alight
From what pole or gallows
Do they dangle in the night?

The Liar
by William Blake

Multiple times in the past I have asked you to look at things that are on other websites and you have told me you don't even bother to click on the links because you expect everyone here to explain things in their own words.

You're a liar and a hypocrite.

You're not to be trusted.

You don't care enough about the truth to be careful about it.

I said I don't go off to read links on this site because I debate the person here. What I gave about the Catholic denomination was a time line of their apostasy doctrines, and I choose what I wanted to share about it and posted it here.

That poem is about you. I have read and debated many times parts of articles that people posted here.

Now stop harassing me.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Not according to GT.
She says you must obey first before you even hear the Gospel.

Nope.... She says you must hope on the Lord, or call on Him, then upon receiving faith one must believe.

The two of us have discussed it often. Basically; one cannot hope on a thing they do not believe in.

 

[lifeisgood]

Nope.... She says you must hope on the Lord, or call on Him, then upon receiving faith one must believe.

The two of us have discussed it often. Basically; one cannot hope on a thing they do not believe in.

No, popsthebuilder, gt, says that you MUST OBEY before you hear the Gospel.

She also says that she OBEYS ALL of Jesus' commandments exactly as He said, then when asked, she said that she does not, and then continues to say that she obeys Jesus' commands exactly.

 

[God's Truth]

SCRIPTURE says that Abraham was declared righteous because he BELIEVED GOD.

Rom 4:3 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Abraham OBEYED before any faith scriptures were spoken of.

Read this scripture, it is about Abraham obeying, and it is before your faith scripture.

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.


Now read this scripture and tell me if God says ‘because Abraham had FAITH’, or ‘because Abraham obeyed’.


Genesis 26:4-5I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."


You need to think more carefully when you want to dismiss obeying.

 

[God's Truth]

Me: Faith and works go together.
You: Indeed they do

Are you kidding me? You are going against me because I say you have to have both to be saved and to stay saved.

You were taught wrong about faith and no works. You think it means faith and no obey!

You think obeying means faith and don't obey!

 

[God's Truth]

We are always amazed that you think that some people were saved by ceremonial/purification works.

The ceremonial works were the works one had to do to be called a child of God, it is the works one had to do to get the blessings from God and not be cut off.

You are badly mistaken.