The Personal Side of the Homosexual Debate

[PureX]

If there is no 'gay gene', then what causes homosexual attraction?

Homosexuality is likely the result of a whole collection of genes, because sexual attraction is complex. It involves an attraction to certain shapes. To certain gestures. Too certain smells. To certain combinations of pheromones, and to phenomena we are likely not yet even aware of.

Predisposed inclinations towards these things will likely require a whole set of genetic coding, which is not unreasonable since of genetic codes are enormously long and complicated.

What's important is that those who engage in homosexual behavior can change. We've seen it with 10's of thousands of "ex gays".

"Tens of thousands" is probably an exaggeration, but some people can choose to change their sexual behavior. That does not, however, change their orientation. it simply denies it in favor of a contrary behavior pattern. Also, it is very likely that they were not fully homosexual in inclination to begin with, but we're rather bisexual to some degree.

I would hope that you'd jump on board and congratulate them for leaving such a destructive lifestyle behind.

There is nothing inherently destructive in being homosexual. And both homosexuality and heterosexuality can become a destructive lifestyle when sexuality is abused.

 

[The 5 solas]

It plays to a concern of mine. People often say homosexuality is a mental illness or aberration. I don't believe it is, but let's just say it is for discussion's sake. Even if it is an illness, why single it out? How is being homosexual then any different than being schizophrenic? Should people who are different be labeled ill and given less rights by people who can't understand their condition? I'd so no.

Quincy, I think that for those who believe the Word of God to say that homosexuality is a sin (which it does in a number of places ) , then for them to consider it to be an illness is just not reasonable. Someone who is a schizophrenic is suffering because of a true medical issue, not a sin issue. I think that is the difference.

I also think that the reason homosexuality or any sexual sin gets a greater reaction is because what the Bible teaches about that too. 1 Corinthians 6:18, "Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." There is something intrinsically more damaging about sexual sin.

Hopefully, that gives at least an insight into why Christians think in the manner they do. The craziness you see from some on this board, however, or those Westboro Baptist sorts, is just insanity. Their anger and hatred is not righteous anger. The way they express it is sinful and disgrace the name of Christ and are an embarrassment to all those who truly love and serve Jesus.

 

[The 5 solas]

Out of context verse dropping, how original.



If we're not to righteously judge, then we shouldn't have laws, police officers to enforce them, or jailers to punish those that break them.

You certainly aren't an anarchist are you T5s? (Of course she isn't, she doesn't want laws that might effect her 'pet sin').

You are foolish. I never said we should not judge.. people misunderstand and misquote that all the time. We are called to judge, but not in the hateful manner you seem to get such a thrill out of.

 

[The 5 solas]

But you see to some here you are "being nicer than God".

How can anyone who is trying to fulfill the great commission and trying to share the love of Christ by preaching the gospel, nicer than God? I do not even comprehend that, please explain.

Some here...are simply nuts. lol They damage the name of Christ with their words and actions.

 

[noguru]

How can anyone who is trying to fulfill the great commission and trying to share the love of Christ by preaching the gospel, nicer than God? I do not even comprehend that, please explain.

Some here...are simply nuts. lol They damage the name of Christ with their words and actions.

I completely agree with you. It is absurd to assume we can be "nicer than God". First off we would need God's absolute knowledge in order to judge all other humans. Based on the minuscule amount of time we can observe them such an expectation is absurd. So to assume that "harsh" judgement can be lined up with God's is the epitome of arrogance, which is often used to cover ones own ignorance. As can be clearly seen with ACW.

This does not mean we cannot judge actions. It means that we should be very cautious about premature judgment, and that we should make every effort to understand. Rather than remain oblivious to realities that one might not like.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
If there is no 'gay gene', then what causes homosexual attraction?

Homosexuality is likely the result of a whole collection of genes, because sexual attraction is complex. It involves an attraction to certain shapes. To certain gestures. Too certain smells. To certain combinations of pheromones, and to phenomena we are likely not yet even aware of. Predisposed inclinations towards these things will likely require a whole set of genetic coding, which is not unreasonable since of genetic codes are enormously long and complicated.

(There's a certain "smell" that causes same sex perversion, that's a new one).

As shown in this link from Father's for Life, an overbearing mother can be one of the main factors as to why a boy has same sex attractions.

By the time the [Homosexual]-son has reached the preadolescent period, he has suffered a diffuse personality disorder. Maternal over-anxiety about health and injury, restriction of activities normative for the son's age and potential, interference with assertive behavior, demasculinizing attitudes, and interference with sexuality -- interpenetrating with paternal rejection, hostility, and lack of support -- produce an excessively fearful child, pathologically dependent upon his mother and beset by feelings of inadequacy, impotence, and self-contempt. He is reluctant to participate in boyhood activities thought to be physically injurious -- usually grossly overestimated. His peer group responds with humiliating name-calling and often with physical attack which timidity tends to invite among children... Thus he is deprived of important empathic interaction which peer groups provide.
http://www.fathersforlife.org/dale/childhood_of_homosexual_men_3.htm

In other words, these effeminate momma's boys take up sports like table tennis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
What's important is that those who engage in homosexual behavior can change. We've seen it with 10's of thousands of "ex gays".

"Tens of thousands" is probably an exaggeration, but some people can choose to change their sexual behavior. That does not, however, change their orientation. it simply denies it in favor of a contrary behavior pattern. Also, it is very likely that they were not fully homosexual in inclination to begin with, but we're rather bisexual to some degree.

Have your homosexual allies found a 'bisexual gene' yet PureX, or have they even started looking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I would hope that you'd jump on board and congratulate them for leaving such a destructive lifestyle behind.

There is nothing inherently destructive in being homosexual. And both homosexuality and heterosexuality can become a destructive lifestyle when sexuality is abused.

Excellent point PureX, the anal sphincter muscle was MEANT to be used as an object of sex in addition to expelling human waste.

Once again, it's been an 'experience' chatting with you.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

You are foolish. I never said we should not judge.. people misunderstand and misquote that all the time. We are called to judge, but not in the hateful manner you seem to get such a thrill out of.

Righteous laws are blind to hatred, they're legislated out of love for the morally confused. These laws help these lost souls find a better way, while if necessary, punishing them for their immoral and destructive behaviors.

Hopefully someday you'll understand that.

 

[The 5 solas]

This does not mean we cannot judge actions. It means that we should be very cautious about premature judgment, and that we should make every effort to understand. Rather than remain oblivious to realities that one might not like.

Yes, and on this side of the grave...our judgement is not so we can point fingers and appease ourselves with self righteousness like so many do here. It is for the purpose of calling them to repentance. Showing them their sin, so they realize that is what it is, then showing them there is freedom and forgiveness in Christ.

If I was not a Christian....if I came onto this board when I was 18 and really searching for spiritual answers...I would have been so repelled by what I see here. I praise God that in His sovereignty, this is not where I came looking for answers, although I know there are people who do. I pray they can see through the haters and by the power of the Spirit the truth and the love of Christ will be revealed to them.

 

[Quincy]

Quincy, I think that for those who believe the Word of God to say that homosexuality is a sin (which it does in a number of places ) , then for them to consider it to be an illness is just not reasonable. Someone who is a schizophrenic is suffering because of a true medical issue, not a sin issue. I think that is the difference.

I see that difference as well, from what I've interpreted from my own readings of the Bible. What I don't understand is how homosexuality is any worse than any other sin but your next segment helps with that some.

I also think that the reason homosexuality or any sexual sin gets a greater reaction is because what the Bible teaches about that too. 1 Corinthians 6:18, "Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." There is something intrinsically more damaging about sexual sin.

Certainly, I mean look at what the plague or what AIDS has done to humanity. I think the issue here is with sexual promiscuity period, though. I might not fully understand it.

Hopefully, that gives at least an insight into why Christians think in the manner they do. The craziness you see from some on this board, however, or those Westboro Baptist sorts, is just insanity. Their anger and hatred is not righteous anger. The way they express it is sinful and disgrace the name of Christ and are an embarrassment to all those who truly love and serve Jesus.

It definitely helps, quite a bit . I totally understand this and I would never fault an honest Christian for standing by his/her principles. Some people are a bit crazy, indeed and I think they use a certain verse in the bible to point out how homosexuality should be a capital offense.

If you think about it, back when humanity was largely tribal based, the two most potentially dangerous COAs were spreading disease, which would do massive damage to the population count as well as not procreating. You can't keep a tribe going if the members aren't reproducing.

Herein lies the dilemma. Are the cultural precepts of those tribes static for their time or do they still apply today? Is every part of the bible still valid in 2014 given societal/medical/technological advances?

 

[Stripe]

It's not OK to be gay.

 

[The 5 solas]

Righteous laws are blind to hatred, they're legislated out of love for the morally confused. These laws help these lost souls find a better way, while if necessary, punishing them for their immoral and destructive behaviors.

Hopefully someday you'll understand that.

Stop and think about what you are saying. Please, if I am misunderstanding you, I will accept the corrective. It sounds like you are placing your hope in government and laws. Is this true?

Human laws are in place for our protection and for people to live in a civil manner amongst each other. We are told to obey our leaders, Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17, but if that is where your hope is, then it is misplaced.

I assume you are an American, I am Canadian, both of our countries have gone down the tubes morally. If we were to set our laws up as the standard of Christian living, in this day and age, we would be failures. Your president is a disgrace. He is so liberal, supporting homosexual marriages and abortions is only the start. You want to put your faith in laws that are flowing out of a government with this man at the helm? Have mercy on us all.

Voice the Christian stance, by all means. Try to slow the flow of the evil tide in a manner that brings glory to God instead of disgrace to the name of Christ. But meanwhile.....spend your time sharing the gospel! That is where the power is. That is what our calling is.

 

[Stripe]

It's not OK to be gay.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Stop and think about what you are saying. Please, if I am misunderstanding you, I will accept the corrective. It sounds like you are placing your hope in government and laws. Is this true?

If you had followed my thread at all, you would know that God ordained the civil magistrate as one of 3 institutions for the governance of man (the family and Church being the other two).

Unrighteous laws brought us 57 million dead unborn babies in a 41 year period. Unrighteous laws have children as young as 9 contracting AIDS because homosexuals are free to run loose like dogs in heat (my apologies to the K-9 world for such a comparison).
The list goes on and on.

God ordained government "hoping" that it would legislate righteously, and I'm doing my best to make certain that someday they do.

Human laws are in place for our protection and for people to live in a civil manner amongst each other. We are told to obey our leaders, Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17, but if that is where your hope is, then it is misplaced.

Romans 13:4

I assume you are an American, I am Canadian, both of our countries have gone down the tubes morally. If we were to set our laws up as the standard of Christian living, in this day and age, we would be failures. Your president is a disgrace. He is so liberal, supporting homosexual marriages and abortions is only the start. You want to put your faith in laws that are flowing out of a government with this man at the helm? Have mercy on us all.

Don't go badmouthing Rusha's and Town Heretics's President. Just because he's a baby murdering/sodomite loving (in fact he might possibly be a sodomite himself) Marxist, doesn't mean that you Canucks can judge him.

Voice the Christian stance, by all means. Try to slow the flow of the evil tide in a manner that brings glory to God instead of disgrace to the name of Christ. But meanwhile.....spend your time sharing the gospel! That is where the power is. That is what our calling is.

How's that working out for the 1.2 million unborn babies murdered (surgically) in the womb each year here in the US?

 

[Buzzword]

Herein lies the dilemma. Are the cultural precepts of those tribes static for their time or do they still apply today? Is every part of the bible still valid in 2014 given societal/medical/technological advances?

And the answer is a very simple NO.

A tribe is constantly on the brink of extinction, so everyone must be included in the procreation process.
Including those men for whom the vagina is repulsive, and those women for whom the penis is disgusting.

Thus the reason for the so-called "recent outbreak" of homosexuality.
It is not recent nor is it an outbreak of anything but people being honest with themselves, and instead of fighting their inclinations or finding unhealthy outlets for them (pederasty, etc.), they are instead seeking loving, committed relationships with the people to whom they are attracted.

And because humanity in general no longer lives in a tribal society, there is no reason to constantly procreate.
Thus heterosexual married couples (like myself and my wife) are not required to have children.
And homosexual couples can form and stay together, in many cases forming a much more loving and committed relationship than their procreating heterosexual counterparts.
...and pick up the slack in providing loving homes for children created by the irresponsible coupling of heterosexuals.

 

[The 5 solas]

is every part of the bible still valid in 2014 given societal/medical/technological advances?

The whole counsel of God is inspired, all pointing to the Lord Jesus Christ and redemption. The Bible is our source of faith and practice and should be used as such. It is not a medical book, it is not a tutor to us for technology but it is a guide to how to live our lives and relate to others around us, so societal guidelines...yes. The Bible and its teachings are timeless, not reserved for only some generations of humanity, but rather for all.

I believe in covenant theology. This means that the Bible is viewed as portraying two covenants. The *covenant of works* in Adam and the *covenant of grace* in Christ. We are not bound by the Jewish laws which are found in the OT, things like the food laws, ceremonial laws, etc. it is in that sense that we are no longer under law, but under grace. The Scriptures reveal Jesus to us and tell us how we should live lives that are pleasing to God.

 

[The 5 solas]

God ordained government "hoping" that it would legislate righteously, and I'm doing my best to make certain that someday they do.

It sounds like you are into Dominion Theology.
Might I suggest you have a misplaced hope.

Spend your time spreading the gospel,
telling people about their need for a Saviour,
and sharing the love of Christ with them.

Thank you for the exchange, it has been interesting.

 

[Selaphiel]

I cannot comprehend this focus on homosexuality. My theory is that it is the easiest sin to despise, granting you the illusion of being holy as opposed to the gays.
Where are the threads that condemn adultery, ridiculous divorce rates (evangelicals being among the absolute worst when it comes to divorce), greed, aggression, hatred, pride and failing to care for the poor and the least of us?

That is what I see being taught in the sermon of the mount, yet no one seems to think that is worth commenting on or making threads about. Much easier to hate on the sin that does not affect us personally. Maybe, just maybe, we should focus on our own sin instead of spending such an absurd amount of time and energy focusing on the sins of others. Is homosexuality really what sticks out as the worst problem in the world today?

 

[The 5 solas]

I cannot comprehend this focus on homosexuality. My theory is that it is the easiest sin to despise, granting you the illusion of being holy as opposed to the gays.
Where are the threads that condemn adultery, ridiculous divorce rates (evangelicals being among the absolute worst when it comes to divorce), greed, aggression, hatred, pride and failing to care for the poor and the least of us?

That is what I see being taught in the sermon of the mount, yet no one seems to think that is worth commenting on or making threads about. Much easier to hate on the sin that does not affect us personally. Maybe, just maybe, we should focus on our own sin instead of spending such an absurd amount of time and energy focusing on the sins of others. Is homosexuality really what sticks out as the worst problem in the world today?

I have said that in my posts speckled throughout this thread. That it is not just homosexuality. I totally agree.

 

[Buzzword]

I cannot comprehend this focus on homosexuality. My theory is that it is the easiest sin to despise, granting you the illusion of being holy as opposed to the gays.
Where are the threads that condemn adultery, ridiculous divorce rates (evangelicals being among the absolute worst when it comes to divorce), greed, aggression, hatred, pride and failing to care for the poor and the least of us?

That is what I see being taught in the sermon of the mount, yet no one seems to think that is worth commenting on or making threads about. Much easier to hate on the sin that does not affect us personally. Maybe, just maybe, we should focus on our own sin instead of spending such an absurd amount of time and energy focusing on the sins of others. Is homosexuality really what sticks out as the worst problem in the world today?

It's the old mote vs. beam conflict again.

Almost makes me yearn for the time when the minding of one's own business was the highest priority in this country.
Almost, because that let a lot of abuse and atrocity slide, but it would be nice if we could take the best part of that attitude and apply it here.

 

[Stripe]

I cannot comprehend this focus on homosexuality. My theory is that it is the easiest sin to despise, granting you the illusion of being holy as opposed to the gays.
Where are the threads that condemn adultery, ridiculous divorce rates (evangelicals being among the absolute worst when it comes to divorce), greed, aggression, hatred, pride and failing to care for the poor and the least of us?That is what I see being taught in the sermon of the mount, yet no one seems to think that is worth commenting on or making threads about.

Walking around with your eyes shut is dangerous. :nono:

Much easier to hate on the sin that does not affect us personally.

What would you know?

Maybe, just maybe, we should focus on our own sin instead of spending such an absurd amount of time and energy focusing on the sins of others.

Or perhaps we could resist sin being celebrated. :thumb:

Is homosexuality really what sticks out as the worst problem in the world today?

No.