The existence of Satan makes no sense.

[popsthebuilder]

You're assuming that all angels have free will. If they don't, but perhaps Satan did, then his sin wouldn't have necessarily turned heaven upside down.

Adam and Eve on the other hand did have free will, and thus took the bait.

Angels have free will. 2/3 of which relinquished that will to utterly and wholly perform the will of God.

 

[Ktoyou]

I'm having a problem

That's for sure!

 

[popsthebuilder]

So because of the fact Satan doesn't have free will that means Heaven can't get effected? So Satan was generally just created to become this evil entity?

Also, the whole "we all suffer because of adam and eve's sin" is really politically incorrect. Why are we condemned for the actions of Adam and Eve, we weren't in that garden.. that's like me going to a random white person and condemning him because his ancestors committed murder.

Politically correct has nothing to do with anything that is actually correct.

We, like Adam and Eve, have potential for direction under God or not. Their potential was the same as its is.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I do conclude that he doesn't exist and is just a metaphor.. but allot of Christians in every denomination views him to be real. Every single negative event such as the shootings, isis terrorism, Nazi's etc are commented as the works of the "enemy". I find that very unintelligent. If Satan does exist, mankind has blown him out of the water as the most evil a LONG time ago. And if he was cast down for hating man, who can blame him?

You make no sense. Satan is the embodiment of all negativity that man is capable of without direction under God.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Why would God punish righteous angels?

You were the anointed cherub who covers, I established you. You were on the holy mountain of God, you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. (Ezekiel 28:14-15 NKJV)​

He didn't.

Humility

 

[Ktoyou]

Politically correct has nothing to do with anything

this is true by itself. There is no such thing as political and correct, politics is a practical profession. One may also say politics is power. Correct has nothing to do with politics.

Those who couple these terms have an immature attitude; they think what they are told to think. The real power comes from those who teach the thinking.

 

[CherubRam]

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Israel was the anointed cherub? You are just making things up. This also answers the OP.

"The Holy Mount" was the congregation that (Satan / the adversary) was on. Israel was anointed as guardian over the people and scriptures.
You really need to get a better grasp on parables.

 

[Nick M]

Yikes!

Apparently you do not if you think the account in Job is a parable.

AMR

Don't you know that there are no "dinosaur" bones, and they are just a parable?

 

[jamie]

The fall of Azalel...

Satan was not a scapegoat.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Satan was not a scapegoat.

I didn't say he was.

 

[way 2 go]

I'm having a problem trying to believe in the existence of Satan for many reasons. It's like his existence logically contradicts the popular view of God being a just God.

how does someones existence make God unjust ?

Satan is believed to be a former high angel, who fell from heaven because he either hated Man, rebelled against God or both.

14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Now, this world is a suffering world.. we die, there is pain, there is evil, the world is just damaged because sin entered it through Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve fell into the temptation of the Serpent, so the serpent is accepted to be Satan which means his fall pre dates the Garden of Eden.

no he was lucifer when he was created perfect
and was a guardian

Eze 28:14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.

when lucifer tempted Eve he fell

So here is the problem, if this world became what it is because of Adam and Eve sinning, then why didn't heaven get the same results if the actual first sin was done in heaven - through Satan?

first sin was not in heaven

There is more to this question, but i'll just start off here because every religion forum i've been to can't answer this.

 

[jamie]

I didn't say he was.

I can quote it if I need to, but you related the Azalel to Satan.

In Lev. xvi. the single allusion to Azazel is as follows: On the tenth day of Tishri (see Atonement Day) the high priest, after first performing the prescribed sacrifices for himself and his family, presented the victims for the sins of the people. These were a ram for a burnt offering, and two young goats for a sin-offering. Having brought the goats before Yhwh at the door of the tabernacle, he cast lots for them, the one lot "for Yhwh" and the other "for Azazel." The goat that fell to Yhwh was slain as a sin-offering for the people. But the goat of Azazel (now usually known as the "scapegoat") was made the subject of a more striking ceremony. The high priest laid his hands upon its head and confessed over it the sins of the people. Then the victim was handed over to a man standing ready for the purpose, and, laden as it was with these imputed sins, it was "led forth to an isolated region," and then let go in the wilderness. (Jewish Encyclopedia/ Azazel)
​

The Azalel was released in an uninhabited place.

Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man.

The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
(Leviticus 16:21-22 NKJV)​

The ultimate uninhabited place is the grave.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Don't you know that there are no "dinosaur" bones, and they are just a parable?

Heh!

AMR

 

[popsthebuilder]

I can quote it if I need to, but you related the Azalel to Satan.

In Lev. xvi. the single allusion to Azazel is as follows: On the tenth day of Tishri (see Atonement Day) the high priest, after first performing the prescribed sacrifices for himself and his family, presented the victims for the sins of the people. These were a ram for a burnt offering, and two young goats for a sin-offering. Having brought the goats before Yhwh at the door of the tabernacle, he cast lots for them, the one lot "for Yhwh" and the other "for Azazel." The goat that fell to Yhwh was slain as a sin-offering for the people. But the goat of Azazel (now usually known as the "scapegoat") was made the subject of a more striking ceremony. The high priest laid his hands upon its head and confessed over it the sins of the people. Then the victim was handed over to a man standing ready for the purpose, and, laden as it was with these imputed sins, it was "led forth to an isolated region," and then let go in the wilderness. (Jewish Encyclopedia/ Azazel)
​

The Azalel was released in an uninhabited place.

Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man.

The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.
(Leviticus 16:21-22 NKJV)​

The ultimate uninhabited place is the grave.

Quite telling and prophetic.

It's a symbolism for the sacrifice of sin. It shows many things. That sin isn't repented through the sacrifice of other life but the sacrifice of the sin. It goes further to show that the new testament is not that of sacrifice but of freedom from sin and the release there of by way of the living holy spirit.

Also lets remember that the goat is not the lamb, and not synonymous with our potential under God, but that of the flesh that we must relinquish to GOD and the will of GOD.

Thanks
Peace

All praise is to the One God through Christ.

 

[OCTOBER23]

SATAN CANNOT MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HUMANS.

So the Azazel Goat represents JESUS.

 

[ttruscott]

So ok Heaven = the Garden, so here we go again.. why didn't it change? Is there suffering in heaven, do people die (again) in heaven, are there animals that brutally eat each other, are there murders up in heaven? No. I'm not asking if sin was allowed, i'm asking how come are world got it's results because of sin entering it and heaven did not?

Because our world is not equal to heaven, only the garden is. Sin was not allowed to stay in heaven when it started but was booted to earth just like sin was not allowed to stay in the garden but was booted out to the earth.

Earth was 'built' as a prison for sin and that is why sinners were sent here. Neither heaven nor the garden were "built" for sin so sin, once discovered there, was put out.

Next, based on your post. The whole sin was in heaven, so in short it's still possible to sin up there.

False conclusion. Sin was there but Satan and all his demons were banished into the earth. The heaven that GOD and Satan met in was our sky, not the high heaven of HIS abode. No sin is found in heaven anymore, it has been eradicated there by the banishment of Satan to earth which is a precursor or type of all evil being banished from all of created reality to the outer darkness.

There is no possibility of sin in heaven again once every elect is holy and trained in righteousness.

If that is the case, then how do we know that the other angels like Micheal, Gabriel, or the Saints like Mary, Joseph, or the people we loved that passed away are still up there? Apparently it's possible for a high angel to sin and get cast down so with all the thousands of years that passed by, is it possible for other known/good figures to have sinned at some point with in these thousands of years?

We are told that the angels working in heaven are holy. The saints in heaven are holy because the word saint comes from the Greek word hagios, which means “consecrated to God, holy, sacred, pious." No holy person can nor will ever sin because that is what holy means, dedicated to GOD's ways, especially of righteousness.

SATAN WAS NOT HOLY BEFORE HE SINNED, but as untested he was still innocent.

 

[eddie17]

Well im having a problem at the moment of what comes from the devil and when is God testing you.

I mean your evil thoughts are maybe from sin but what about all evil apart from your thoughts,is it all from the devil??? which if it is leads to all kinds of problems.

So in quick,how do you discern what is from the evil one and what is from God?

 

[Traditio]

Satan is believed to be a former high angel, who fell from heaven because he either hated Man, rebelled against God or both. Now, this world is a suffering world.. we die, there is pain, there is evil, the world is just damaged because sin entered it through Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve fell into the temptation of the Serpent, so the serpent is accepted to be Satan which means his fall pre dates the Garden of Eden.

So here is the problem, if this world became what it is because of Adam and Eve sinning, then why didn't heaven get the same results if the actual first sin was done in heaven - through Satan?

There is more to this question, but i'll just start off here because every religion forum i've been to can't answer this.

I'll answer this in broad terms:

1. Heaven, broadly speaking, is the beatific vision; it is the "face to face" vision of God, the Supreme Good Itself, who, if only we were to be united with Him and were to "see" Him "face to face," would make us perfectly happy.

2. Satan never enjoyed this vision. It was certainly possible for him to do so, but when the angels were created and offered the gifts of grace, a third basically said "no." Two thirds of the angels responded with humility and love to God...the other third? With pride and self-will. It is, perhaps, a possibility that Satan and the angels said "no," at least in part, because of the "scandal" of the Incarnation. Thus they "fell" from God and merited unending punishment and exclusion from the sight of God.

3. From the above, it's evident why your question doesn't really make sense. "If Adam's fall made the world a worse place, then why didn't Satan's fall make Heaven a worse place?" Satan was never "there" to begin with.

 

[popsthebuilder]

SATAN CANNOT MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HUMANS.

So the Azazel Goat represents JESUS.

The goat is not synonymous with the white lamb.

And Azazel is synonymous with the personification of sin in some cultures.

It's a name.

When are you people going to realize that names do not denote anything but division. Sin is in every one of us. The selfless conscience under the direction of God( the creator of all existence as we know it) is in every one of us.

This makes them universal or singular. As in all.

Do you understand that?

 

[popsthebuilder]

. And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to themthe metals*〈of the earth〉*and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. 2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl,