ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[heir]

Mark spoke of Jesus Christ.

So?

Are you saying Jesus Christ did not present the One True Everlasting Gospel of Grace?

You use made up terms. The Lord while on earth preached the gospel of the kingdom which is not the gospel of Christ/the gospel of the grace of God.

Are you saying that Paul's preaching was different and SUPERIOR to Christ's preaching?

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

It is the gospel by which we are saved. Why would you want to lead someone away from it?

If you think so, you truly do not know WHO Jesus Christ is.

WHO Jesus Christ is, is not enough to save anyone, today.

 

[heir]

Not . . .

What I say, is that the entire bible contains the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and any of all the Word of God has the power to save.

What you say and what the Bible says are two different things. The Bible contains more than one piece of good news. The Bible says that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV,1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) NOT "any of all the Word of God has the power to save". I'll stick with my KJB!

Why, why, why, would you desire to discourage others from discovering the joyful good news of God, found from reading all the Holy Scriptures?

I don't discourage anyone to not read the Bible.

Why, why, why, do you seek to encourage others to be satisfied with, and being content to think they know all the saving grace of God, by just reading 4 verses, out of just one book out of the bible?

I declare the gospel of Christ as Paul did. It is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. I encourage others to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. You are being ridiculous, as usual.

Makes no sense to me for any supposed Christian, to not love all the Word of God, or think they can live from less than knowing and learning from all the Word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV

 

[oatmeal]

to those who are unsure how one receives the HS and or eternal salvation...

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Obeying Romans 10:9-10 allows God to give us the gift of salvation.

 

[oatmeal]

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John do not mention Paul's gospel.

Not directly, but the all truth of John is referring to those epistles as well as the rest of the books that make up all truth of the scripture

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

That spirit of truth is the means that God gave the revelation of the mystery and the other books of the NT

 

[heir]

to those who are unsure how one receives the HS and or eternal salvation...

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Salvation is by grace through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in our place (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)!

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

You don't have to go anywhere, do anything or necessarily say anything to be saved. Just trust the Lord believing what Christ did for you and God will save you!

 

[heir]

Not directly, but the all truth of John is referring to those epistles as well as the rest of the books that make up all truth of the scripture

People are trying to retro fit Paul's gospel into M, M, L and John, but it isn't there. That's the point.

Paul's gospel was kept secret and the Bible tells us why (Romans 16:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). There's no need to fight the truth.

 

[Nick M]

:smokie:

:cigar:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Again, it's pictorial. I seriously doubt there are literal mansions in heaven, or streets paved with gold.

I see...

 

[musterion]

How does one expect gifts from God when he doesn't believe He's capable of saying what He means? Very odd. Stupid, one could say.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is The Everlasting Gospel that has always and alone had the power to save sinners since the fall of Adam.

Only the devil would invent basis to disagree . . .

Made up,


Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Ezekiel 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

 

[Levolor]

... think that the things "spoken.... since the world began" and the things "kept secret since the world began" can somehow be the same things. Completely illogical.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Matthew 13:13

It is completely possible to hear and not understand. If it is not understood, what is said (or read, or heard) remains a mystery; a secret.

This was just not in Jesus' day either.

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Isaiah 6:9

Completely illogical, you say? Maybe to some because ... my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. Isaiah 55:8

It would be illogical to the mind that does not yet perceive.

Can you perceive/understand this, and as important, accept it?

When we too are hidden in God (Colossians 3:3), that which is hidden within God is not hidden to that person.

Psalm 118:24

Psalm 150:6

 

[Tambora]

Yeah, I don't like semantical juggling with the Scriptures, either.

Translated: I only read the bible literally and am willfully blind to any and all spiritual applications contained therein.

No. that is not the translation.

 

[Tambora]

God delivering the nation of Israel out of Egypt

Right. Israel. Not Jesus Christ.

was ensuring the future fulfillment of the eventual birth and deliverance of Jesus,

Jesus would come no matter where Israel traveled.

also to be delivered physically out of Egypt: the Christ born as a babe from the tribe of Judah;

Israel is real.
Jesus Christ is real.
They are not one and the same.

the spiritual "Israel" His Elect Son. (Isaiah 42:1)

There is no spiritual Israel.
Israel is real. Israel is a nation that God specifically chose and separated from other nations.

And God is not through with Israel.

 

[Nick M]

Translated: I only read the bible literally and am willfully blind to any and all spiritual applications contained therein.

Translation: It doesn't mean what it says. Let you be accursed.

 

[steko]

I understand your answer to be:

"Paul's Jewish brethren, according to their flesh (natural Israelite flesh heritage) were not literally Israelites because they were not all believers, nor redeemed, in Christ."

Is this correct?

They are all literally Israelites who were born into the literal flesh nation of Israel, but only those literal Israelites who believed GOD are counted as the Israel of promise which is also literal.

 

[Tambora]

Jesus Christ, scripturally defined as being the true and spiritual "Israel" of God,

The nation of Israel is still elect.

is more real, actual, and lasting than the literal nation of Israel, which was only an earthly and temporal type of His Eternal Person, Who IS the everlasting Bearer of the Holy Ordinances of God.

Israel is just as real as Jesus Christ.
Israel did not become non-elect when Jesus was born.

Israel and Jesus Christ are not one and the same.

Jesus did not replace Israel. And neither does the BOC replace Israel.

 

[Tambora]

Yes
Obviously the huge transition was from flesh to Spirit. While people were in the flesh under the old covenant, all the promises had to be explained using natural terminology.

Israel is in the flesh under the New Covenant also.

The New Covenant did not change Israel from flesh to non-flesh.

 

[steko]

Nang and Co. think that the things "spoken.... since the world began" and the things "kept secret since the world began" can somehow be the same things. Completely illogical.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Matthew 13:13

It is completely possible to hear and not understand. If it is not understood, what is said (or read, or heard) remains a mystery; a secret.

This was just not in Jesus' day either.

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Isaiah 6:9

Completely illogical, you say? Maybe to some because ... my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. Isaiah 55:8

It would be illogical to the mind that does not yet perceive.

Can you perceive/understand this, and as important, accept it?

When we too are hidden in God (Colossians 3:3), that which is hidden within God is not hidden to that person.

Psalm 118:24

Psalm 150:6

RD's point is that there were certain things that were 'spoken since the world began', in other words, through the prophets.

Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luk 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


On the other hand, there are those things which the prophets did not reveal and which have been hidden until the Lord Jesus revealed them through His Apostle Paul.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


Things that are different are not the same.

 

[steko]

Again, it's pictorial. I seriously doubt there are literal mansions in heaven, or streets paved with gold. Just like I don't think there will be people literally on fire and eaten by worms forever in hell. In heaven it will be better, and in hell it will be worse.
Spiritual ecstasy and agony can't be described the same way it will be experienced.

The word translated 'mansions' in the KJV comes from the Greek 'mone' which simply means 'permanent dwelling/habitation/abode'.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Nang]

WHO Jesus Christ is, is not enough to save anyone, today.

How can you make such a statement, and call yourself a Christian?

Or do you call yourself a Christian?