ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[heir]

Right. Israel. Not Jesus Christ.


Jesus would come no matter where Israel traveled.


Israel is real.
Jesus Christ is real.
They are not one and the same.


There is no spiritual Israel.
Israel is real. Israel is a nation that God specifically chose and separated from other nations.

And God is not through with Israel.

Amen, Tambora!

 

[heir]

How can you make such a statement, and call yourself a Christian?

I'm stating the facts. How can you who call yourself a Christian say that the WHO of Jesus Christ is enough to save an individual today?

 

[heir]

RD's point is that there were certain things that were 'spoken since the world began', in other words, through the prophets.

On the other hand, there are those things which the prophets did not reveal and which have been hidden until the Lord Jesus revealed them through His Apostle Paul.

Yep!

 

[Nang]

Right. Israel. Not Jesus Christ.

Scripture interprets Scripture, and Matthew 2:15 interprets Hosea 11:1 as "Israel" (besides being a nation delivered out of Egyptian) as also the Son of God (spiritual Israel) being delivered out of Egypt.

The promised Seed, the Messiah, was carried within the tribe of Judah, to be born as Jesus.

There is no spiritual Israel.

Not what Paul taught in Romans Chapters 9-11

Israel is real. Israel is a nation that God specifically chose and separated from other nations.

And God is not through with Israel.

National Israel still exists but is no longer the servant of God. The spiritual Israel, Jesus Christ, is now God's Elect Servant. Isaiah 42:1

God has cast off national Israel for her adulteries. National Israel crucified their King and denies Jesus Christ is the Son of God come in flesh.

Only a remnant of Jews will be saved by Christ's according to Election. Romans 11:5

 

[heir]

Can you perceive/understand this, and as important, accept it?

Can you answer this?

What is the gospel of your salvation?

 

[heir]

Scripture interprets Scripture, and Matthew 2:15 interprets Hosea 11:1 as "Israel" (besides being a nation delivered out of Egyptian) as also the Son of God (spiritual Israel) being delivered out of Egypt.

The promised Seed, the Messiah, was carried within the tribe of Judah, to be born as Jesus.





Not what Paul taught in Romans Chapters 9-11




National Israel still exists but is no longer the servant of God. The spiritual Israel, Jesus Christ is now God's Elect Servant. Isaiah 42:1
God has cast off national Israel for her adulteries. National Israel crucified their King and denies Jesus Christ is the Son of God come in flesh.

Only a remnant of Jews will be saved by Christ's according to Election. Romans 11:5

Israel is presently Loammi, not God's people (Hosea 1:9 KJV_), but Israel as a future (Romans 11:25-28 KJV)!

Furthermore, the remnant according to the election of grace were those to whom Paul was sent during his Acts provoking ministry not today.

 

[Right Divider]

Mark spoke of Jesus Christ.

Are you saying Jesus Christ did not present the One True Everlasting Gospel of Grace?

Are you saying that Paul's preaching was different and SUPERIOR to Christ's preaching?

If you think so, you truly do not know WHO Jesus Christ is.

The Lord Jesus Christ SENT Paul.

Paul preached and wrote what THE LORD JESUS CHRIST REVEALED TO HIM.

 

[Nang]

For those interested in one Reformer's point of view on the Israel of God....

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace....nialism-101-jesus-christ-the-true-israel.html

Scroll down for further comments.

There is one comment about the old sacrificial system coming back. I met someone this week whose dispensational church is teaching this.

Is this what MAD believes will happen?

Excellent article.

It is doubtful any MADists will read it. They are brainwashed with strong Dispensational delusion and prove to be unteachable.

I will let them give you answer to your last question.

 

[heir]

The Lord Jesus Christ SENT Paul.

Paul preached and wrote what THE LORD JESUS CHRIST REVEALED TO HIM.

She doesn't know why or should I say, she doesn't believe the why that Paul preached is necessary for salvation.

 

[Nang]

The Lord Jesus Christ SENT Paul.

Paul preached and wrote what THE LORD JESUS CHRIST REVEALED TO HIM.

Paul knew who Jesus Christ was, and Paul would be horrified by heir's statements that knowledge of Christ's Person does not save.

See II Timothy 1:1, 8-14; I John 4:1-6

 

[heir]

Paul knew who Jesus Christ was, and Paul would be horrified by heir's statements that knowledge of His Person does not save.

See II Timothy 1:1, 8-14; I John 4:1-6

It wasn't enough to stablish the Romans who had a faith in the WHO of Jesus Christ (Romans 1:1-4 KJV) into the Body of Christ!

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Nang]

Israel is presently Loammi, not God's people (Hosea 1:9 KJV_), but Israel as a future (Romans 11:25-28 KJV)!

Furthermore, the remnant according to the election of grace were those to whom Paul was sent during his Acts provoking ministry not today.

Romans 11:25-28 refers to Christ and all His elect invisible church. See Hebrews 12:22-24.

 

[Nang]

It wasn't enough to stablish the Romans who had a faith in the WHO of Jesus Christ (Romans 1:1-4 KJV) into the Body of Christ!

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Are you claiming the church at Rome was all unsaved? Doubtless, within their midst there were individuals who would profit from hearing Paul preach the gospel, but the church at Rome at the time of this epistle were mostly already saved, Jewish Christians.

 

[Nang]

Good morning Nang,

I hope someone will at least take a look. There are several other blog posts about this topic, on this site, as well.

Our new friend is suffering strong persecution for leaving the Dispensational church. He and his wife grew up in this church and even after being gone for over a year, they are shunned and ridiculed in the community.

I have no more time today, bless you.

CB

I am not surprised your friend is being persecuted. Dispies are very cultish and react badly towards any who escape their clutches!

 

[heir]

Are you claiming the church at Rome was all unsaved? Doubtless, within their midst there were individuals who would profit from hearing Paul preach the gospel, but the church at Rome at the time of this epistle were mostly already saved, Jewish Christians.

I've no doubt that the Romans would be saved as they were a part of the remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew (Romans 11:1-6 KJV), but they could not be saved into the Body without hearing and believing Paul's gospel. It's undeniable why Paul longed to see them and that was to impart unto them some spiritual gift to the end, they may be established! So as much as in him was, he was ready to preach the gospel to them and it was the gospel of Christ (Reread Romans 1 with your eyes open believing it). The gospel of Christ was what would stablish them into the one Body!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.


You can ignore the text all you want or you can believe God's word over your tradition. What's it going to be?

 

[Nang]

I've no doubt that the Romans would be saved as they were a part of the remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew (Romans 11:1-6 KJV), but they could not be saved into the Body without hearing and believing Paul's gospel. It's undeniable why Paul longed to see them and that was to impart unto them some spiritual gift to the end, they may be established! So as much as in him was, he was ready to preach the gospel to them and it was the gospel of Christ (Reread Romans 1 with your eyes open believing it). The gospel of Christ was what would stablish them into the one Body!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.


You can ignore the text all you want or you can believe God's word over your tradition. What's it going to be?

Paul's motive to visit the church at Rome at this time, was to further his mission, from there, into Spain. Read Romans 15:22-24

You really would benefit from studying some church history.

 

[heir]

Paul's motive to visit the church at Rome at this time, was to further his mission, from there, into Spain. Read Romans 15:22-24

Why Paul longed to see the Romans is here, but you completely ignored the text as usual.

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Romans 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Romans 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

Romans 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

You really would benefit from studying some church history.

I'll stick with the KJB.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

How can you make such a statement, and call yourself a Christian?

Or do you call yourself a Christian?

That Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is indeed good news. But it is not the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation for every one that believes.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

They are brainwashed with strong Dispensational delusion and prove to be unteachable.

The irony.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You really would benefit from studying some church history.

I know enough church history to know that all that were in Asia had already departed from Paul's doctrine in the mid first century.

What else do I need to know?