ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

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heir

heir

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Notice Peter's reaction to what the Lord said unto him. Is this a man who knew why or gloried in the cross like Paul? No way!

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
 
andyc

andyc

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SaulToPaul said:
Yes, however

Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Ezekiel 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
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As in, until the end of the world.
David is not the person meant, but a spiritual David (Christ). And the kingdom is spiritual. However, the promise of a spiritual kingdom was never revealed in the old testament. Never. Therefore the land of Canaan is spiritually revealed by the spiritual prince (Christ). "My kingdom is not of this world."

The fathers here would be talking about the OT saints stretching back to Abraham, but we already know that he regarded himself a stranger on the earth.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
andyc said:
David is not the person meant, but a spiritual David (Christ). And the kingdom is spiritual. However, the promise of a spiritual kingdom was never revealed in the old testament. Never. Therefore the land of Canaan is spiritually revealed by the spiritual prince (Christ). "My kingdom is not of this world."
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Oh.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
heir said:
According to Paul's gospel the why of the cross was absolutely a mystery and the Bible tells us why!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


Luke 24 is not the gospel of Christ. It's what Peter would preach in Acts 2, 3 and so on...


Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


No why of the cross there!

Why do religious folk like andyc and Nang hate this truth?
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Nang does not hate any part of the Words of Truth. She only hates how Dispies, and especially MAD, abbreviate and thereby falsify the Gospel Truth.

I Corinthians 15:1-4 is a gospel message, but it is not the only revelation of the saving gospel to be found in the bible.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ should not be reduced nor limited to 4 verses, when the entirety of the Holy Scriptures teach, prophesy, and reveal the Son of God come in human flesh to redeem His people.
 
andyc

andyc

New member
heir said:
According to Paul's gospel the why of the cross was absolutely a mystery and the Bible tells us why!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
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Right. So it wasn't revealed to just Paul, was it?


1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
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The mystery of the kingdom was hidden to those who rejected Jesus.


Luke 24 is not the gospel of Christ. It's what Peter would preach in Acts 2, 3 and so on...
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You're not answering the question. Why did Jesus ask those people why they didn't understand that the messiah ought to suffer and then enter his glory?


Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


No why of the cross there!

Why do religious folk like andyc and Nang hate this truth?
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The cross is the payment for sin. The gospel is concerning forgiveness of sins in order to inherit eternal life. This was preached by Jesus and the apostles.
 
Tambora

Tambora

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Nang said:
Scripture interprets Scripture, and Matthew 2:15 interprets Hosea 11:1 as "Israel" (besides being a nation delivered out of Egyptian) as also the Son of God (spiritual Israel) being delivered out of Egypt.

The promised Seed, the Messiah, was carried within the tribe of Judah, to be born as Jesus.





Not what Paul taught in Romans Chapters 9-11




National Israel still exists but is no longer the servant of God. The spiritual Israel, Jesus Christ, is now God's Elect Servant. Isaiah 42:1

God has cast off national Israel for her adulteries. National Israel crucified their King and denies Jesus Christ is the Son of God come in flesh.

Only a remnant of Jews will be saved by Christ's according to Election. Romans 11:5
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Doesn't matter how many times God punishes Israel.
They are still His beloved, and there are still promises to be kept.

Romans 11:28 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
andyc said:
Can you show anywhere in the OT where people are promised a heavenly reward?
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Just a city.

OT - people are promised land, and some people a city

Paul - our inheritance is far above all heavens.

Let them be. Let God fill the universe (the earth, the city, and the heavens) with his people.
 
andyc

andyc

New member
SaulToPaul said:
I will go and prepare a place for you,

A city comes down from heaven.

Why not believe it?
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Paul explained that we are fellow citizens of God's household. So if you think we're all going to be on the earth dwelling in this huge city that goes off into space. So be it.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
Just a city.

OT - people are promised land, and some people a city

Paul - our inheritance is far above all heavens.

Let them be. Let God fill the universe (the earth, the city, and the heavens) with his people.
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What did Abraham look for?

Land or a city?
 
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