SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up statement about heir. She was saved by Christ, the man.
That Jesus is the Christ is not the truth of 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV), which you despiseth.
ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.
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Made up statement about heir. She was saved by Christ, the man.
That Jesus is the Christ is not the truth of 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV), which you despiseth.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
How can anyone miss Paul's reason for wanting to visit the Romans? Plainly laid out in Romans 1.
Levolor
New member
Things that seem different or even contradictory can be the same. They are called paradoxes.
It was secret only to the sons of men. They did not know, but the prophets did. Amos 3:7 proves that. Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
How else are there so many prophecies concerning the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ? The prophets knew. Since they knew, there was no secret.
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. John 8:56
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. Luke 2:30, 31, 32
They saw it. They perceived. They understood. It was not a secret prior to St. Paul other than to the sons of men only.
The titles of sons of men and prophets are indeed different. The title of apostle includes being a prophet (as well as evangelist, teacher, pastor, administrator, helps, etc... they can do it all, well.)
So, yes... the sons of men did not understand or perceive the secret while the prophets in the O.T. did, as well as the apostles did then and do now.
What was there? 353 prophecies in the O.T. concerning Jesus Christ? How were those prophecies made without the prophets knowing long before St. Paul?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I thought you let scripture interpret scripture?
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Even
Gen 24:64 (KJV)
Is this the gospel, that is the power of God unto salvation for every one that believes?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:noway:
Arsenios
Well-known member
Yah, you Dog!
Don't you be weener-doggin' on me now!
I KNOW you are a BIG dog...
So STEP UP and prove it!
Show me one affirming what another denies!
That is the only way you can show TWO...
Arsenios
Romans chapters 9-11 deal specifically with Paul's kinsmen and his brethren according to the flesh, some the believing remnant and some unbelieving.
Romans 11:25-28 is speaking of ethnic Israel in contrast to the nations/gentiles.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In vs 25 Paul is addressing Gentile believers who are ignorantly conceited towards ethnic Israel during their temporary blindness which will end in the future fulness of the current program to the nations.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
In vs 26-27 Paul references Isaiah 59 which speaks historically of ethnic national Israel and their future restoration which is spoken of so many times by the prophets.
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Ro 11:28-29 speaks of GOD's irrevocable covenant made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and His continued love and preservation of that people on this basis, inspite of the conceited ignorance of Gentile believers.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
These verses have nothing whatsoever to do with a made up 'spiritual Israel' composed of all believers since Abraham and including the BOC.
Jacob's name was changed to Israel.
He had twelve sons who became the twelve tribes of Israel.
Their descendants were called Israel and sojourned in Egypt for 400 years.
Moses led that people, Israel, out of Egypt and to Sinai, where GOD formed a Theocratic Kingdom.
This is the people, Israel, who GOD is dealing with through the rest of the OT and into the four Gospels and most of Acts.
This is the people, Israel, who Paul is referring to in Romans 9-11 as being restored and receiving their New Covenant in the future.
They are not replaced by the BOC, nor are they replaced or absorbed by a universal church beginning with Adam.
It is an unjustifiable hermeneutic which retroactively imposes a new, made up meaning on the words of the OT prophets.
Words mean things and to apply made up meanings to the words of Scripture can only bring confusion.
Arsenios
Well-known member
They follow Christ...
Willfully denying self taking up their own cross...
This is the teaching of the Cross that Paul preaches...
They do it daily...
A violent and painful (to themselves) seizing of Christ...
Remember when Christ said to Ananias that He wanted to SHOW Paul HOW MUCH he must SUFFER for the Body of Christ? This is the Apostolic Calling, which Paul desires for any who would imitate him as he imitates Christ...
Entry into Christ Who IS the Kingdom of Heaven is done by the violence of REPENTANCE as a lifelong way of life... The hard and narrow and straited way of salvation...
IF any is willing... [Matthew's Gospel]
Arsenios
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
What violence did the kingdom of heaven suffer from Matthew 1-11?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
andyc
New member
Yep.
Everyone has to have the gospel revealed to them, but for some reason a new gospel was revealed to Paul?
Nope.
andyc
New member
According to Paul's gospel, Jesus died, rose, and was glorified. That wasn't new information.
andyc
New member
andyc
New member
Paul regarded Jews as his brethren according to the flesh. But believers are regarded brethren in the Spirit.
andyc
New member
Yes.
I think the whole Idea was to simply explain that they had a massive reward waiting for them, and Jesus was going to prepare it for them.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, however
Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Ezekiel 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
heir
TOL Subscriber
heir
TOL Subscriber
According to Paul's gospel the why of the cross was absolutely a mystery and the Bible tells us why!
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Luke 24 is not the gospel of Christ. It's what Peter would preach in Acts 2, 3 and so on...
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
No why of the cross there!
Why do religious folk like andyc and Nang hate this truth?
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