ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[Nang]

That's not a translation.
It's an assumption.

If so, prove me wrong . . .

Explain how "Israel," as defined in Romans 9:6, can be exegeted literally, only.

 

[Nang]

That Simply Proves Your Inability To Translate, Perhaps Carrying Over In "Other" Translations YOU Make

Hint to one who appears to be unaware: I was translating Steko; not the Bible in this instance. (It is called "sarcasm" of sorts.)

 

[journey]

Only reprobates were/are kept from knowing and believing the Gospel of God. Isaiah 6:9-10

MADists reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ in its entirety; therefore, they fall into the camp of unbelievers left in their unbelief.

God has ordained this particular judgment, as it has recently been revealed big-time and first-hand on TOL, and nothing is going to change what God has decreed to happen in time, from before the beginning of time, to those who deny the good news of His Son coming to redeem and reconcile His elect church to the Father.

The true sons of God, who believe by faith in the eternal Decrees and the Covenant Gospel of Grace, promised and provided by God, since the beginning of time, will praise God for seeing His Sovereign will performed and come to pass . . . no matter how badly this web site falls into heresy.

This coming from a blind heretic (you) makes it mean nothing. You don't have a clue why Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross or what He accomplished at the cross. Things did change at the cross. Talking to you is like talking to a rock, so you just made my ignore list.

 

[Nang]

This coming from a blind heretic (you) makes it mean nothing. You don't have a clue why Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross or what He accomplished at the cross. Things did change at the cross. Talking to you is like talking to a rock, so you just made my ignore list.

Pray tell, what exactly is your Scriptural explanation or understanding of why Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross and what He accomplished at the cross?

 

[journey]

Nang and Co. think that the things "spoken.... since the world began" and the things "kept secret since the world began" can somehow be the same things. Completely illogical.

Trying to share the truth with them is like talking to a rock. It really doesn't matter to them that God's Word is very blunt and to the point on this subject. There isn't much to interpret because it's so blunt, and they will tell you that you are wrong in your interpretation. False teachers love to twist Scriptures and deny what happened at the cross. As for true believers, the cross is the biggest and most important event in human history. What changed at the cross is a MYSTERY that they claim doesn't exist. However, God's Word bluntly states otherwise. What a glorious and beautiful MYSTERY revealed by Jesus Christ to the Apostle Paul!

 

[steko]

If so, prove me wrong . . .

Explain how "Israel," as defined in Romans 9:6, can be exegeted literally, only.

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Literal exegesis Ro 9:6:

They(Paul's literal brethren and kinsman of the flesh vs.3) are not all literal believing/redeemed Israel, which are of literal flesh Israel.

 

[Nang]

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Literal exegesis Ro 9:6:

They(Paul's literal brethren and kinsman of the flesh vs.3) are not all literal believing/redeemed Israel, which are of literal flesh Israel.

I understand your answer to be:

"Paul's Jewish brethren, according to their flesh (natural Israelite flesh heritage) were not literally Israelites because they were not all believers, nor redeemed, in Christ."

Is this correct?

 

[andyc]

The description is given in symbols but is actual and will be visible.

It is the Heavenly city of the saints soon to be established on the earth beginning at Jerusalem.

(no stone temple necessary)

LA

I think all that is spiritual imagery. But it's not something I'm dogmatic about. No need for me to get all worked up about it.

 

[andyc]

LOL
That's not the gospel of Christ

Why was Jesus surprised that the people he was talking too didn't understand that the messiah should suffer, and then be glorified?

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you——unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Luke 24:25-26
25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"

Jesus explained that people should have understood what you interpret as Paul's gospel in 1Cor 15. Yet wasn't it supposed to have first been revealed to Paul?

 

[andyc]

Yes, so . . .

God is a Covenantal God.

Study of His revealed Covenants is actual study of His Holy Scriptures and study of His Holy Scriptures is study of His Covenants revealed.

"Covenantalism" defined.

Yes
Obviously the huge transition was from flesh to Spirit. While people were in the flesh under the old covenant, all the promises had to be explained using natural terminology.

 

[patrick jane]

Why was Jesus surprised that the people he was talking too didn't understand that the messiah should suffer, and then be glorified?

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you——unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Luke 24:25-26
25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"

Jesus explained that people should have understood what you interpret as Paul's gospel in 1Cor 15. Yet wasn't it supposed to have first been revealed to Paul?

YES. not "supposed" to. Was

View attachment 19259

 

[musterion]

Imaginary covenants are imaginary.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The gospel that was preached in Acts 2 is not the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16-17 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV).

So you believe the 3000 were not saved.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I think all that is spiritual imagery. But it's not something I'm dogmatic about. No need for me to get all worked up about it.

Consider--

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Why was Jesus surprised that the people he was talking too didn't understand that the messiah should suffer, and then be glorified?

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you——unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Luke 24:25-26
25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"

Jesus explained that people should have understood what you interpret as Paul's gospel in 1Cor 15. Yet wasn't it supposed to have first been revealed to Paul?

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
LA

 

[newbirth]

to those who are unsure how one receives the HS and or eternal salvation...

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[chrysostom]

to those who are unsure how one receives the HS and or eternal salvation...

instead of quoting scripture
why not tell us in your own words?
like

love God and your neighbor
and
ask for help doing it

you will need it

 

[heir]

Why was Jesus surprised that the people he was talking too didn't understand that the messiah should suffer, and then be glorified?

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you——unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Luke 24:25-26
25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"

Jesus explained that people should have understood what you interpret as Paul's gospel in 1Cor 15. Yet wasn't it supposed to have first been revealed to Paul?

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John do not mention Paul's gospel.

 

[heir]

to those who are unsure how one receives the HS and or eternal salvation...

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

never trusted the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), no salvation or eternal security (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV) and it's(the gospel of Christ) NOT in Acts 5.

 

[heir]

The true sons of God, who believe by faith in the eternal Decrees and the Covenant Gospel of Grace, promised and provided by God, since the beginning of time, will praise God for seeing His Sovereign will performed and come to pass . . . no matter how badly this web site falls into heresy.

made up