ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[Nang]

If a person's testimony is void of the cross work of Christ in their place, they have not and are not trusting the Lord for salvation.

Agreed

Paul declared the gospel by which we are saved in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV.

All that Paul wrote was inspired by God and is therefore part of the Gospel

When people realize that their testimony hasn't said a word about the WHY of the cross/ what Christ did for them in dying for their sins, being buried and raised again the third day nearly 2000 years ago, they tend to take it out on the person that may have brought that to light by the preaching of the cross, comments and questions.

Telling you that there is much more about God's Gospel of Jesus Christ, than just 4 verses from Paul, is not wicked on our parts. It is standing for the entirety of the Holy Scriptures. For there is much to learn about why and what Jesus Christ accomplished for His own, that is not covered in I Corinthians 15:1-4 alone.

You claim this small portion of Truth is the only truth, and that all the rest of scripture is of a different truth, that cannot save! All this wrong testimony is meant to achieve, is to discourage others from reading and being blessed by every word spoken by God.

Killing the messenger is easier than facing the man in the mirror who's never had a moment in his life when he trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of his salvation.

You promote yourself as a messenger because you limit yourself to preaching a Gospel message of 4 verses only? And call others unsaved because they tell you there is more to the message, you refuse to acknowledge?

You just do not get it, do you?

Rather you accuse those of us who believe Paul gave the Gospel in those 4 verses, but encourage more study of the bible to learn, appreciate, and know the full Gospel message, as being unsaved and teaching other gospels. You imply we are not genuine Christians, like yourself. That is pure vanity on your part.

But that is only the beginning of your motives to disassemble the rest of scripture, demean the words and message of salvation of Jesus Christ Himself, in order to promote a false teaching never known in the church of Christ until the 19th century. Put all together, you evidence the spirit of a Jezebel in the midst of God's faithful.

I have nothing to brag of myself. I glory in the cross of Christ!

Then why do you brag that you are saved, apart from so few others? And how can you think you glory in the cross, when you refuse the majority of the scriptures that reveal the promises, purposes, and Person who died on the cross.

You have deceived yourself in all these matters, and try to deceive others, to follow your way, rather than learning of Jesus Christand serving Him and His righteousness.

IOW's you are "Heir-centered" and "Paul-centered" and "MAD-centered" rather than Christ-centered, which is a false religion through and through.

 

[Arsenios]

What is there to love about an icon?

Holy Scripture gives us word-images from the Gospel of Christ...

Holy Icons gives us those images direct...

We post-moderns are spoiled...

We are born with a silver spoon in our mouths...

We live in entitlement...

And Christianity is in rapid decline...

You see, we all know how to read and write...

And now we don't even use paper, but type on our keyboards,
and have search engines to look up Bible Passages,
often not even opening a Bible except online...
And we glory in our superiority over the early Christians
who could neither read nor write
and lived primitively,
in whom Christianity was making its ascent...

Those in decline scorn those who did the ascent, you see...
Such is how we are as post-moderns...
Prideful in our fall...

But when you have to work hard, do not have enough to eat,
have to give what you do have to feed your family,
which has to work from 3 years old to death in a hoped for old age,
and you can neither read nor write,
and there are no printing presses,
and a week's work might buy you a sheet of hand made paper,
IF you could find it,
and a Bible is so rare and so precious that you get cleaned up,
perhaps even heat water and take a bath,
and put on your best rags and go to Church morning and night
to just hear a few lines read from this Precious Book
as you are giving thanks with the rest of the faithful
for the great abundance of the rich mercies that God has given you...

When THIS is your condition...
Then will your eyes read,
in prayer and thanksgiving,
the rich abundance of the holy icons
surrounding you in beauty
in the Church where you join with others
to worship God Almighty
and pray for the world...

And with your tears of thanksgiving,
your beautiful face will regain the primordial beauty
in which our Loving God and Creator
first created us in His Image [eikon = icon] and Likeness...

We are icons of God, you see,
who have been born of the Fall of Adam,
and who seek the Face of the God of Jacob...
And we live in the restoration of that Image and Likeness in Christ Jesus,
even as we sojourn as strangers
upon the face of this fallen creation
which we call earth...

The history of the Holy Spirit of God
in the Body of our Lord after His Incarnation
is written, in a small part,
in the Sacred Art of that Holy Body...
It is written in Her Hagiography...
It is written in the hearts of the faithful
who are living and writing the future of that history
in this very day and hour...

There is everything to love about Icons...

They are windows to God and His Kingdom...

God Bless You, my Friend...

Arsenios

The icon on the left depicts the Prophet Elijah in his fiery chariott ascending to heaven...

The one on the right is one depicting the Crucifixion of our Lord...

Each is written to tell God's story without words...

For the unspoiled Children of the Living God...

 

[Nang]

Holy Scripture gives us word-images from the Gospel of Christ...

Holy Icons gives us those images direct...

We post-moderns are spoiled... We are born with a silver spoon in our mouths... We live in entitlement...

And Christianity is in rapid decline...

You see, we all know how to read and write, and now we donn't even waste paper, but type on our keyboards, and have search engines to look up Bible Passages, often not even opening a Bible except online... And we glory in our superiority over the early Christians who could neither read nor write and lived primitively, in whom Christianity was making its ascent... Those in decline scorn those who did the ascent, you see... Such is how we are as post-moderns... Prideful in our fall...

But when you have to work hard, do not have enough to eat, have to give what you do have to feed your family, which has to work from 3 years old to death in a hoped for old age, and you can neither read nor write, and there are no printing presses, and a week's work might buy you a sheet of hand made paper, IF you could find it, and a Bible is so rare and so precious that you get cleaned up, take a bath, put on your best rags and go to Church morning and night to just hear a few lines read from it as you are giving thanks with the rest of the faithful for the great abundance of the rich mercies which, God has given you... When THIS is your condition... Your eyes will
read in prayer and thanksgiving the rich abundance of the holy icons surrounding you in beauty in the Church where you join with others to worship God Almighty...

And with your tears of thanksgiving, your beautiful face will regain the primordial beauty in which our Loving God and Creator first created us in His Image [eikon = icon] and Likeness...

We are icons of God, you see, who have been born of the Fall of Adam, and who seek the Face of the God of Jacob... And we live in the restoration of that Image and Likeness in Christ Jesus, even as we sojourne as strangers upon this fallen creation we call earth...

The history of the Holy Spirit of God in the Body of our Lord after His Incarnation is written, in a small part, in the Sacred Art of that Holy Body... It is written in Her Hagiography... It is written in the hearts of the faithful who are living and writing the future of that history in this very day and hour...

There is everything to love about Icons...

They are windows to God and His Kingdom...

God Bless You, my Friend...

Arsenios

My dear friend,

Worship using icons is idolatry and against the 2nd commandment, and it has been my prayer for years, that you would put them away.

 

[Arsenios]

I'd look odd in that line... what with my red cape and all.

I do have a long black coat, but I like the red... symbolizing Christ's blood as my covering.

Those folks did not look like happy campers... Russians, I would guess, and outside weather may have been a factor... They looked beat down...

The good news is that they knew where to go with their shabby souls, and who knows? It is hard to tell the book by the cover... There is a story behind that picture...

Arsenios

You seriously wear a red cape FOR REAL???
!!!O.M.G.!!!
All my world is shifting ground!

A.

 

[Arsenios]

i had a nikon. chodachrome

What a cheap ploy to get me to PRAY FOR YOU!

You're kinda crafty...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

i was just kidding. I am Patrick Jane. but i think we get a bit off the core argument sometimes. sorry to be goofy. i am - atrol:

Oh NOW you're gonna GET IT!

And you AIN'T a-gonna see it a-commin'!!

A.

 

[Arsenios]

We already knew you are an idol worshiper. Thanks for being honest enough to admit it.

Please read my post about spoiled post-moderns and the decline of Christianity... You are a part of that decline... I am too... We need to pray for one another...

The rise of Christianity came in the persecutions of those who venerate the holy ones of God before their images...

Your JOB as a Christian is to icon Christ...

May it be your JOY...

Arsenios

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

When people realize that their testimony hasn't said a word about the WHY of the cross/ what Christ did for them in dying for their sins, being buried and raised again the third day nearly 2000 years ago, they tend to take it out on the person that may have brought that to light by the preaching of the cross, comments and questions. Killing the messenger is easier than facing the man in the mirror who's never had a moment in his life when he trusted the Lord AFTER hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of his salvation.

No slight intended towards KToYou, I confess I didn't read her testimony yet, but this paragraph is true.

 

[Levolor]

Those folks did not look like happy campers... Russians, I would guess, and outside weather may have been a factor... They looked beat down...

The good news is that they knew where to go with their shabby souls, and who knows? It is hard to tell the book by the cover... There is a story behind that picture...

Yes there is, and perhaps they had to travel far, in difficult weather, to arrive at a place where worshiping and praising God was allowed.

You seriously wear a red cape FOR REAL???

Yes.

!!!O.M.G.!!!

LOL, what?

All my world is shifting ground!

What!?!

 

[Ktoyou]

No slight intended towards KToYou, I confess I didn't read her testimony yet, but this paragraph is true.

Jeff,
I am vexed, why would you put me in the red? Do you not remember how you, Randy and I have teased out a vicissitudes of MAD and tried to pass this to who would listen?

What about the difference in the Gospel to the Gentiles and to the Israelites? Do you still wonder if there are three Gospels, or do you see Acts 28 is the further revelation of Acts 9?
Do you see there is a difference between meticulous foreknowledge and divine foreknowledge?

It is elementary what Heir wants everyone to say in her own words, her own special Biblical quotes, I think most should have put to memory, in fact, salivation is Christ, the act of Christ is salvation! Anyone who desires salvation only needs to be reckoned with ‘the blood of Christ’ or His reason He became flesh.

It is all so simple, yet what makes it so hard is too many people refuse to let go of self, and give themselves in pure faith to Jesus/ salvation.

I am sick of all the maltreatment I receive here. Last time I heard form Randy, it seemed to me, he was saying, too few care to listen, as if he was not appreciated here, I perhaps should have left then too? I stayed mainly because the forum meant so much to me; I felt I could show appreciation by helping out as much as I can.

Then I find betrayal rather than gratitude!

 

[Nang]

Jeff,
I am vexed, why would you put me in the red? Do you not remember how you, Randy and I have teased out a vicissitudes of MAD and tried to pass this to who would listen?

A couple of questions; if I may ask:

Did you post prior to 2007 under a different user name?

How long have you been an apologist for MAD?

What about the difference in the Gospel to the Gentiles and to the Israelites? Do you still wonder if there are three Gospels, or do you see Acts 28 is the further revelation of Acts 9?

How many gospels do you believe exist?

Do you see there is a difference between meticulous foreknowledge and divine foreknowledge?

Do you see a difference between the two, and if so, could you please explain your views.

Last time I heard form Randy, it seemed to me, he was saying, too few care to listen, as if he was not appreciated here,

Is Randy "Chickenman?"

I perhaps should have left then too? I stayed mainly because the forum meant so much to me; I felt I could show appreciation by helping out as much as I can.

Then I find betrayal rather than gratitude!

You are on TOL to "help out" Dispensational MADists?

Just trying to pin down your exact beliefs, since I never picked up on any affiliation between you and the MADists prior to these recent posts.

 

[john w]

You are asking me to remember 35 years ago?

I can barely remember 5 minutes ago...

Do you remember my promise to you?

Are you still praying for me?

Bless you, my Brother!

Arsenios

Do YOU dig the Fig?

Do you like gooseliver?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Agreed



All that Paul wrote was inspired by God and is therefore part of the Gospel



Telling you that there is much more about God's Gospel of Jesus Christ, than just 4 verses from Paul, is not wicked on our parts. It is standing for the entirety of the Holy Scriptures. For there is much to learn about why and what Jesus Christ accomplished for His own, that is not covered in I Corinthians 15:1-4 alone.

You claim this small portion of Truth is the only truth, and that all the rest of scripture is of a different truth, that cannot save! All this wrong testimony is meant to achieve, is to discourage others from reading and being blessed by every word spoken by God.




You promote yourself as a messenger because you limit yourself to preaching a Gospel message of 4 verses only? And call others unsaved because they tell you there is more to the message, you refuse to acknowledge?

You just do not get it, do you?

Rather you accuse those of us who believe Paul gave the Gospel in those 4 verses, but encourage more study of the bible to learn, appreciate, and know the full Gospel message, as being unsaved and teaching other gospels. You imply we are not genuine Christians, like yourself. That is pure vanity on your part.

But that is only the beginning of your motives to disassemble the rest of scripture, demean the words and message of salvation of Jesus Christ Himself, in order to promote a false teaching never known in the church of Christ until the 19th century. Put all together, you evidence the spirit of a Jezebel in the midst of God's faithful.




Then why do you brag that you are saved, apart from so few others? And how can you think you glory in the cross, when you refuse the majority of the scriptures that reveal the promises, purposes, and Person who died on the cross.

You have deceived yourself in all these matters, and try to deceive others, to follow your way, rather than learning of Jesus Christand serving Him and His righteousness.

IOW's you are "Heir-centered" and "Paul-centered" and "MAD-centered" rather than Christ-centered, which is a false religion through and through.

Absolutely all true.

MAD rejects much scripture by relegating it to be only for the Jewish church, so called, which they claim is not alive now and is under another gospel.

MAD rejects that the new covenant is for the body of Christ.

MAD says the Bride of Christ is not the body of Christ.

MAD says the grace of God was not taught until Paul taught it.

MAD rejects the keys to the Kingdom of God preached by Peter.

MAD rejects the words of Peter himself which were spoken in the presence of Paul and the other Apostles--

Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.


Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon (Peter) hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

LA

 

[john w]

That's the plan...go home, a little ice cream, a little tv, off to Thelma Lou's. Yep, that's the plan...home, tv, Thelma Lou's.

You forgot the cashew fudge. You beat everything...You know that, mayor?

 

[john w]

Agreed



All that Paul wrote was inspired by God and is therefore part of the Gospel



Telling you that there is much more about God's Gospel of Jesus Christ, than just 4 verses from Paul, is not wicked on our parts. It is standing for the entirety of the Holy Scriptures. For there is much to learn about why and what Jesus Christ accomplished for His own, that is not covered in I Corinthians 15:1-4 alone.

You claim this small portion of Truth is the only truth, and that all the rest of scripture is of a different truth, that cannot save! All this wrong testimony is meant to achieve, is to discourage others from reading and being blessed by every word spoken by God.




You promote yourself as a messenger because you limit yourself to preaching a Gospel message of 4 verses only? And call others unsaved because they tell you there is more to the message, you refuse to acknowledge?

You just do not get it, do you?

Rather you accuse those of us who believe Paul gave the Gospel in those 4 verses, but encourage more study of the bible to learn, appreciate, and know the full Gospel message, as being unsaved and teaching other gospels. You imply we are not genuine Christians, like yourself. That is pure vanity on your part.

But that is only the beginning of your motives to disassemble the rest of scripture, demean the words and message of salvation of Jesus Christ Himself, in order to promote a false teaching never known in the church of Christ until the 19th century. Put all together, you evidence the spirit of a Jezebel in the midst of God's faithful.




Then why do you brag that you are saved, apart from so few others? And how can you think you glory in the cross, when you refuse the majority of the scriptures that reveal the promises, purposes, and Person who died on the cross.

You have deceived yourself in all these matters, and try to deceive others, to follow your way, rather than learning of Jesus Christand serving Him and His righteousness.

IOW's you are "Heir-centered" and "Paul-centered" and "MAD-centered" rather than Christ-centered, which is a false religion through and through.

"All that Paul wrote was inspired by God and is therefore part of the Gospel"=clueless what the term "gospel" means. No sober person could make that assessment.




PigPen once again asserts that her saint Judas preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-satanic.

 

[john w]

Those folks did not look like happy campers... Russians, I would guess, and outside weather may have been a factor... They looked beat down...

The good news is that they knew where to go with their shabby souls, and who knows? It is hard to tell the book by the cover... There is a story behind that picture...

Arsenios

You seriously wear a red cape FOR REAL???
!!!O.M.G.!!!
All my world is shifting ground!

A.

Was V. Lenin's grave a Communnist plot?

Da, elee nyet?

 

[Arsenios]

Do you like gooseliver?

You have forgotten!

Alas!

I am a goner fer shur!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Was V. Lenin's grave a Communnist plot?

Da, elee nyet?

Yah, Yu Belcha!

A.

 

[Nick M]

Failure to believe these verses which exposes Christ rejector LALiar "doctrine" for what it is, is just plain old Christ rejecting LALying unbelief---.......
So there-you taught us this "spam any string of verses in yellow" sophistry technique.

You whooped 'um again, Josey.

 

[heir]

I think I'm having a stroke. Everything just turned yellow.

:chuckle: