SOME PROOF OF CHRIST'S DIETY AND BEING THE CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS.
- Thread starter Grosnick Marowbe
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All you have to do is show where the AENT differs from Greek translations.
I did see the verse where you said closing means beginning.
How does Revelation 22:17 read?
But you forgot to do something, you forgot to test the spirits against scripture and so you have been deceived. Scripture trumps anything men can say. Your assertions aren't validated by scripture.
Start over and test the spirits.
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1 NKJV)
Test the spirits against God's inspired word and quit being a false prophet. Your inspiration is an illusion, a deceptive illusion.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Define the word "elohim" and "theos"
Then tell me what God said of Moses in Exodus 7:1.
And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Moses is as much god as Jesus Christ is god.
Seeing that Psalms 82:6 refers to the children of the most high as gods, these children of the most high are as much god as Jesus and Moses are god.
When you learn that "elohim" and "theos" are not uniquely a specific name or title for the Creator, for the God and Father of the lord Jesus Christ, then you will have learned something about who God is and who Moses is and who the children of the most high are and who Jesus Christ, the son of God is and who believers today, as sons of God are and are not. I John 3:1-2
Add to that I Peter 3:6 what does "lord" the Greek word kurios, mean?
Until then.
Not quite, did God lead Moses and Jacob's people out of Egypt?
Moses never appeared as a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day.
The verse says God made a god to Pharaoh. On the other hand the
Bible is filled with references of Jesus being God, to everybody.
WRONG. He is not a form of God He is God.
Colossians 1-16-19
Colossians 1:16-19 New International Version (NIV)
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Keypurr is a poor soul. At eighty years old, he still hasn't found the true Gospel.
(The Grace Gospel given to Paul by the ascended Christ) He denies the Deity of
Christ.
(The Grace Gospel given to Paul by the ascended Christ) He denies the Deity of
Christ.
Amen BR
keypurr
Well-known member
Read Phil 3 BR.
And stop skipping over verse 15 in Col 1.
Firstborn of all creation/creatures.
Jesus was the firstborn of the church of the firstborn, i.e. the firstborn of the dead.
And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:18 NKJV)
As Paul said, this is in context of the church.
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24 NKJV)
Why do you claim Jesus did not die and was then resurrected as the firstborn of the dead?
keypurr
Well-known member
Define Deity GM.
Jesus said that all power was given to him.
Does that tell you anything? It should.
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Does being a member of the society of 2016 and still being an apologist for the Arian heresy not say anything to you?
Common sense here; Yeshua the flesh man was the veil that covered the Seed Son of the Father. Yeshua the flesh man wasn't even born into the world until 2000+ years ago, so how could His flesh have created all that is?
Hebrews 1:1 God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds. 3 His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself made purification for our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have. 5 For to which of the angels did he say at any time, "You are my Son, Today have I become your father?" and again, "I will be to him a Father, And he will be to me a Son?" 6 When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, "Let all the angels of God worship him."
Answer: it couldn't have and neither can natural flesh and blood enter the Kingdom. Note in verse 6 above that HaShem had to tell the angels to worship Him. Why? Because they couldn't see through the veil He was hidden in (the flesh man).
Yeshua the flesh man was part of the waters below the firmament, which is ALL that was created. The firmament is called heaven. The waters above the firmament are where the Most High dwells. Even in this first pattern you can see that the Mediator is between man and the Most High, and this is why the Seed Son said to Nicodemus I'm in HEAVEN, but I'm standing right here talking to you.
He left Father and mother to cleave unto His wife that His Father betrothed Him to. His Son is the radiance of His glory, and the very image of His substance (which is SPIRIT NOT FLESH), and it was this substance that was unveiled on the Mount.
If you can hear this, His glory was like the sun for brightness, and His flesh was like the moon; it reflected the glory of the sun having no glory of it's own. The disciples were seeing "signs in the heavens" before the great day of the Lord came and they didn't even know it. Soon the "moon" (flesh) would be turned to blood and there would be earthquakes.
Now Saul saw no man, only the glory of the risen Son Seed, and He was told basically that He was persecuting a dead man, to the natural man's understanding. How is that possible? Because He was persecuting the Seed of Abraham in a many-membered body, the Seed that fell to the ground and produced much fruit. This is why in spite of many members, it was plainly stated SEED, singular, because this Seed is the only begotten of the Father and if only begotten then that means ONLY ONE WILL BE CREATED, but it will dwell in a many-membered body to fulfill the promise made to Abraham.
Yeshua the flesh man could not fulfill the promise made to Abraham because He left no heirs. But His kinsman redeemer the Seed Son of HaShem that indwelt Him from conception and became one with Him truly as He grew in wisdom and maturity, COULD AND DID and has raised up children by His widow.
Which is why the Pharisees marveled over His speech because they said He didn't know letters! Yeshua the man didn't, but SEED Son knows all things and brought all things to His remembrance, same way He does now with us if we are willing to humble ourselves to learn from Him. Which is why we are told to take no thought for what you will speak, for the Holy Ghost will speak for you.
Everything He did was for our example as the premiere Israelite born under the law. He was born to veil the Son and the Son came to show us the way to the Father. The Father was in the Messiah, reconciling all men unto Himself. What He did, was walk out all the compartments of the Tabernacle experience, illustrating our approach to the Father. When Yeshua the man came into agreement with the Seed within Him, they were one as the head and the body are one, and the head of Him (the Seed) was one with the Father, also as the head and the body are one. Which is why He said that He wanted us to be one, even as He and the Father are one. Tell me; are they one in the flesh or in the Spirit? Having begun in the Spirit are you now made perfect (means complete) by the flesh?
In the outer court, the veil of the flesh was rent, and that includes the flesh of the man Yeshua. In the inner court, the veil of the flesh of the Seed is rent, that the Father might be revealed, since the Father was in Christ reconciling all men unto Him. This is why you can't have the Father without the TRUE Son, nor the Son without the Father. Each come to reveal each other.
There are 3 courts because there are 3 aspects of man to deal with: Spirit, soul and body. And so it was with Yeshua too, only His soul was the Seed, and His Spirit was the Father. This is why He said speaking as the Seed, I have life (His life) and life everlasting (the Father's) to give.
Saul said He knew all mysteries, but he didn't reveal the depth of all mysteries because they have to be via the Word and the Spirit in each of us, pressing in.
Proverbs 25:2 HNV It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
He is King of KINGS, and Lord of lords. Dead, stagnant religion has robbed man and robbed HaShem and is like the Israelites who refused to move with the cloud and pretty soon the oasis dried up and they with it. Peace
Hebrews 1:1 God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds. 3 His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself made purification for our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have. 5 For to which of the angels did he say at any time, "You are my Son, Today have I become your father?" and again, "I will be to him a Father, And he will be to me a Son?" 6 When he again brings in the firstborn into the world he says, "Let all the angels of God worship him."
Answer: it couldn't have and neither can natural flesh and blood enter the Kingdom. Note in verse 6 above that HaShem had to tell the angels to worship Him. Why? Because they couldn't see through the veil He was hidden in (the flesh man).
Yeshua the flesh man was part of the waters below the firmament, which is ALL that was created. The firmament is called heaven. The waters above the firmament are where the Most High dwells. Even in this first pattern you can see that the Mediator is between man and the Most High, and this is why the Seed Son said to Nicodemus I'm in HEAVEN, but I'm standing right here talking to you.
He left Father and mother to cleave unto His wife that His Father betrothed Him to. His Son is the radiance of His glory, and the very image of His substance (which is SPIRIT NOT FLESH), and it was this substance that was unveiled on the Mount.
If you can hear this, His glory was like the sun for brightness, and His flesh was like the moon; it reflected the glory of the sun having no glory of it's own. The disciples were seeing "signs in the heavens" before the great day of the Lord came and they didn't even know it. Soon the "moon" (flesh) would be turned to blood and there would be earthquakes.
Now Saul saw no man, only the glory of the risen Son Seed, and He was told basically that He was persecuting a dead man, to the natural man's understanding. How is that possible? Because He was persecuting the Seed of Abraham in a many-membered body, the Seed that fell to the ground and produced much fruit. This is why in spite of many members, it was plainly stated SEED, singular, because this Seed is the only begotten of the Father and if only begotten then that means ONLY ONE WILL BE CREATED, but it will dwell in a many-membered body to fulfill the promise made to Abraham.
Yeshua the flesh man could not fulfill the promise made to Abraham because He left no heirs. But His kinsman redeemer the Seed Son of HaShem that indwelt Him from conception and became one with Him truly as He grew in wisdom and maturity, COULD AND DID and has raised up children by His widow.
Which is why the Pharisees marveled over His speech because they said He didn't know letters! Yeshua the man didn't, but SEED Son knows all things and brought all things to His remembrance, same way He does now with us if we are willing to humble ourselves to learn from Him. Which is why we are told to take no thought for what you will speak, for the Holy Ghost will speak for you.
Everything He did was for our example as the premiere Israelite born under the law. He was born to veil the Son and the Son came to show us the way to the Father. The Father was in the Messiah, reconciling all men unto Himself. What He did, was walk out all the compartments of the Tabernacle experience, illustrating our approach to the Father. When Yeshua the man came into agreement with the Seed within Him, they were one as the head and the body are one, and the head of Him (the Seed) was one with the Father, also as the head and the body are one. Which is why He said that He wanted us to be one, even as He and the Father are one. Tell me; are they one in the flesh or in the Spirit? Having begun in the Spirit are you now made perfect (means complete) by the flesh?
In the outer court, the veil of the flesh was rent, and that includes the flesh of the man Yeshua. In the inner court, the veil of the flesh of the Seed is rent, that the Father might be revealed, since the Father was in Christ reconciling all men unto Him. This is why you can't have the Father without the TRUE Son, nor the Son without the Father. Each come to reveal each other.
There are 3 courts because there are 3 aspects of man to deal with: Spirit, soul and body. And so it was with Yeshua too, only His soul was the Seed, and His Spirit was the Father. This is why He said speaking as the Seed, I have life (His life) and life everlasting (the Father's) to give.
Saul said He knew all mysteries, but he didn't reveal the depth of all mysteries because they have to be via the Word and the Spirit in each of us, pressing in.
Proverbs 25:2 HNV It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
He is King of KINGS, and Lord of lords. Dead, stagnant religion has robbed man and robbed HaShem and is like the Israelites who refused to move with the cloud and pretty soon the oasis dried up and they with it. Peace
Not backwards since Christ now rules from Heaven and the Father serves His son, having put everything into His hands until the Kingdom is handed back to the Father.
It was the Father who was reconciling the world to Himself through His son up to the cross .
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
LA
Trins believe Jesus was a living conscious being in Heaven besides that of His Father, before Jesus was born , so it is impossible for them to understand much truth.
LA
Get yourself a good commentary and read what they say about Colossians 1:15. Read what the scholars have to say. It may help you in making a real decision about who Jesus is.
keypurr
Well-known member
Commentary are written by men, I have about six of them. They are opinion based, done years ago. Believe them if you wish, I just see them historic opinions from men who were misguided most of the time.
Trust in the Lord not men. God created his express image you need to deal with what it is to understand the spirit side of Christ.
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