Paul: "If Christ be not raised your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins"

[Epoisses]

First, you really did not respond to the post.

Not really an either/or situation. In some sense, we are saved upon election before the foundation of the world. In some sense we were saved by the cross work of Jesus. And in some sense we are saved when God monergistically converts us. And in some sense we are saved when we are glorified. We were saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.

My salvation or your salvation is not really the issue. Was Judas Iscariot saved? If so, what did salvation get him?

We are not saved by election which is a component of God's foreknowledge. Peter said he was elect by the foreknowledge of God. The Calvinist who teaches that election or predestination saves is a liar and a deceiver. We are saved by the life, death and resurrection of Christ of which we had no part in.

 

[Nanja]

TRUTH. Romans 10:17

The natural man cannot hear God's Words.

John 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus is clearly telling them, that unless they are born of God, or are Of God, they don't have the ability to hear.
And because they don't have the ability to hear, it's impossible for them to have Faith, which comes by Hearing Rom. 10:17.

~~~~~

 

[lifeisgood]

You deny that scripture and teach salvation by works, by what a person does.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I don't believe you have ever answered Tambora's question. Can you direct me to your answer to her. Thank you.

 

[Robert Pate]

The natural man cannot hear God's Words.

John 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus is clearly telling them, that unless they are born of God, or are Of God, they don't have the ability to hear.
And because they don't have the ability to hear, it's impossible for them to have Faith, which comes by Hearing Rom. 10:17.

~~~~~

You cannot hear and believe the Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus atones for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 2:2.

You don't believe that because you are spiritually dead.

 

[Nanja]

You cannot hear and believe the Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus atones for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 2:2.

You don't believe that because you are spiritually dead.

You don't believe the authority of the scriptures, because you are unable to.

Jesus said:

John 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


You cannot spiritually hear / understand God's Words
because you are not Born Again / Born of God.



The only "World" Christ's Atonement was for was Limited to those He Loved before the world began:


Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began



~~~~~

 

[patrick jane]

You don't believe the authority of the scriptures, because you are unable to.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all who believe, period. Not a chosen few..

How did you find out you're one of the elect ? By reading it ?

Pate understands the scriptures 100 X better than you.

 

[TulipBee]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all who believe, period. Not a chosen few..

How did you find out you're one of the elect ? By reading it ?

Pate understands the scriptures 100 X better than you.

The few were absent of the chosen but they didn't want God anyway. Page understands he lied cause he read his own lies in noticed posts and saw it himself. He decided not to apologise for it hoping you won't notice or forget. Are you forgetting pate's lies as well? It's still here on TOL.

 

[Brother Ducky]

We are not saved by election which is a component of God's foreknowledge. Peter said he was elect by the foreknowledge of God. The Calvinist who teaches that election or predestination saves is a liar and a deceiver. We are saved by the life, death and resurrection of Christ of which we had no part in.

OK...Just who has said that we are saved by election/predestination?

 

[Aletheiophile]

The natural man cannot hear God's Words.

John 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus is clearly telling them, that unless they are born of God, or are Of God, they don't have the ability to hear.
And because they don't have the ability to hear, it's impossible for them to have Faith, which comes by Hearing Rom. 10:17.

~~~~~

I'm not sure that you understand the way I am referencing Romans 10:17.

The first word of the verse is "so then," thus predicating the verse on what came before in Paul's discussion of the importance of preaching.

Faith is primarily the object of believing--the thing believed. The subjective act of believing is secondary. Further, faith is articular, so it is THAT Faith, THE Faith. Then hearing is not a verb. It's a noun - the thing heard. And because hearing (noun) is anarhtrous, it is the quality and character of the thing heard. What is the thing heard? The Rhema of God - the very substance of God thought and spoken about.

So of course it is not "ability" to hear. The source is God. The source can only be God. Faith is distributed by God, and the means is the preaching and reception of preaching.

Thus it does not contradict your John passage, for hearing/receiving the Gospel comes intandem with the death and resurrection of the believer with Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

OK...Just who has said that we are saved by election/predestination?

John Calvin.

"That some receive the gift of faith from God and others do not receive it, proceeds from God's eternal decree" Canons of Dort, First head: Article #6.

 

[Brother Ducky]

John Calvin.

"That some receive the gift of faith from God and others do not receive it, proceeds from God's eternal decree" Canons of Dort, First head: Article #6.

Did John Calvin write the Canons of Dort?

That those who are predestined will be saved is, of course, Calvinism 101, so to speak. That is not the same thing as saying that we are saved by being elect. Election has to do with the who, not the how.

 

[Robert Pate]

Did John Calvin write the Canons of Dort?

That those who are predestined will be saved is, of course, Calvinism 101, so to speak. That is not the same thing as saying that we are saved by being elect. Election has to do with the who, not the how.

The Canons of Dort were first published in 1619.

When you try to mix election with the Gospel you wind up with no Gospel or a false Gospel. One of the bases for our salvation is that Jesus died for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. To say he didn't voids the Gospel.

 

[Nanja]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all who believe, period. Not a chosen few..

How did you find out you're one of the elect ? By reading it ?

Pate understands the scriptures 100 X better than you.

Pate, as well as all others in false freewill religion believe the lie that they can choose to be saved by some work they perform: Call on the Lord, believe in Him, trust in Him, etc. But those things done by the natural / carnal man cannot please God.

Rom. 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


But all those Christ died for shall Believe the Truth because they were Chosen to Salvation:


2 Thes. 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


So at some point in their lives, these Chosen Ones will be given God's Spirit in New Birth because they belonged to Him from Everlasting 2 Tim. 1:9. It's a Supernatural Blessing they all Eph. 1:4 receive passively!



Rom. 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Rom. 8:14-16
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

~~~~~

 

[patrick jane]

Right, that's it, Nanja thinks we can't believe by hearing. We were meant to hear and believe but that would be works according to Nanja's false message. So even if Nanja never heard she would still be elect ? According to Nanja, most people are not elect and if they happen to hear and believe it doesn't count because it's a work to hear and believe. Most people go to hell according to Nanja.

Romans 10:17 KJV - Romans 10:13 KJV -

 

[patrick jane]

False teachers like Nanja and nang want to feel like they are part of a special select group that is saved, and they didn't need to hear and believe

 

[Nanja]

Right, that's it, Nanja thinks we can't believe by hearing. We were meant to hear and believe but that would be works according to Nanja's false message. So even if Nanja never heard she would still be elect ?

A person can't be saved by anything they do, according to the scriptures Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 8:7-8.
If it's something you do while still carnal Rom. 8:8, yes, it's a work of the flesh Is. 64:6!

~~~~~

 

[Nanja]

I'm not sure that you understand the way I am referencing Romans 10:17.

The first word of the verse is "so then," thus predicating the verse on what came before in Paul's discussion of the importance of preaching.

Faith is primarily the object of believing--the thing believed. The subjective act of believing is secondary. Further, faith is articular, so it is THAT Faith, THE Faith. Then hearing is not a verb. It's a noun - the thing heard. And because hearing (noun) is anarhtrous, it is the quality and character of the thing heard. What is the thing heard? The Rhema of God - the very substance of God thought and spoken about.

So of course it is not "ability" to hear. The source is God. The source can only be God. Faith is distributed by God, and the means is the preaching and reception of preaching.

Thus it does not contradict your John passage, for hearing/receiving the Gospel comes intandem with the death and resurrection of the believer with Christ.

Faith is a Fruit and Gift of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22. Only those Born of the Spirit are able to Spiritually Hear with God Given Hearing Ears Prov. 20:12.


Is. 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


2 Cor. 2:14-16
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: 16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

~~~~~

 

[Aletheiophile]

Faith is a Fruit and Gift of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22. Only those Born of the Spirit are able to Spiritually Hear with God Given Hearing Ears Prov. 20:12.


Is. 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


2 Cor. 2:14-16
14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. 15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: 16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

~~~~~

Yes. We're saying the same thing.

 

[Brother Ducky]

The Canons of Dort were first published in 1619.

When you try to mix election with the Gospel you wind up with no Gospel or a false Gospel. One of the bases for our salvation is that Jesus died for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. To say he didn't voids the Gospel.

Cool. John Calvin died in 1564. So how did he write the Canons of Dort? Ghostwriter?

Wrong.

 

[beloved57]

The natural man cannot hear God's Words.

John 8:43,47
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jesus is clearly telling them, that unless they are born of God, or are Of God, they don't have the ability to hear.
And because they don't have the ability to hear, it's impossible for them to have Faith, which comes by Hearing Rom. 10:17.

~~~~~

Amen Sister in the Gospel!