PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

turbosixx

turbosixx

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meshak said:
I will look for it. I am sure there are some.
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Cool. As I said I don't have a firm grasp on this because I haven't given it much thought. The way I look at it whether we go to heaven or stay on earth doesn't really matter. What really matters is being saved. If we're not saved we know exactly where we go.
 
meshak

meshak

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turbosixx said:
Cool. As I said I don't have a firm grasp on this because I haven't given it much thought. The way I look at it whether we go to heaven or stay on earth doesn't really matter. What really matters is being saved. If we're not saved we know exactly where we go.
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how do you understand new earth?
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

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meshak said:
how do you understand new earth?
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I haven't gotten into Revelation much because it is written in Apocrypha and therefore difficult to understand. I'm trying to get a good grasp on the other books that aren't written in "code" to help keep me grounded when I read Revelation. That being said I'm not really sure but here is my current understanding.

If we look at the language after the new heaven and earth it looks like the judgment is still future.
Rev. 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He *said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Currently I understand the new heaven and earth to be after the D,B&R because now God lives in heaven but also lives in us.
1 Cor. 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
Before Christ God's Spirit could only be found in the holy of holies on the mercy seat.

I understand the new Jerusalem to be the church.
 
meshak

meshak

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turbosixx said:
I haven't gotten into Revelation much because it is written in Apocrypha and therefore difficult to understand. I'm trying to get a good grasp on the other books that aren't written in "code" to help keep me grounded when I read Revelation. That being said I'm not really sure but here is my current understanding.

If we look at the language after the new heaven and earth it looks like the judgment is still future.
Rev. 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He *said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Currently I understand the new heaven and earth to be after the D,B&R because now God lives in heaven but also lives in us.
1 Cor. 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
Before Christ God's Spirit could only be found in the holy of holies on the mercy seat.

I understand the new Jerusalem to be the church.
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I understand the new earth to be peaceful and loving world like Isaiah says. It is only logical and reasonable to me.

That was so strong and clear description that I dont have to look for anything else.
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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turbosixx said:
Those prophecies are from the OT looking to Christ. If it were still future for us, wouldn't the NT writers tell at least the Gentiles because they don't know the OT prophecies.




That's the way I understand it as well. Paul says it's better to be at home with the Lord.

2 Cor. 5:6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

We are aliens on this earth because our citizenship is in heaven.
Phil. 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
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That is only referring to the body of anointed holy ones that will rule with Christ in heaven. The majority of us will live on the earth forever in Paradise conditions, just as God intended it to be when He created the earth.
 
T

Truster

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KingdomRose said:
When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
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You have created a Deity that ticks all the boxes you imagine would be fun, nice and that satisfy the wilfully ignorant. Dream on, but when the King of Terrors comes for you, your Disney version will grant you no comfort or strength.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

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KingdomRose said:
That is only referring to the body of anointed holy ones that will rule with Christ in heaven. The majority of us will live on the earth forever in Paradise conditions, just as God intended it to be when He created the earth.
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Could you please point me to the verses that support that.
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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Truster said:
You have created a Deity that ticks all the boxes you imagine would be fun, nice and that satisfy the wilfully ignorant. Dream on, but when the King of Terrors comes for you, your Disney version will grant you no comfort or strength.
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The King of Terrors will not come for me. I have faith and trust in the Most High Jehovah that no harm will befall me. He is truly a kind, comforting God, unlike your sadistic tyrant who roasts people in a fire like pigs on a spit.
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

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KingdomRose said:
When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
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Oh no! Another one?
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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turbosixx said:
Could you please point me to the verses that support that.
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Sure.

From the beginning.

(1) "And God said, Let us make man in our image; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth....And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it....And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden, to dress it and to keep it." (Genesis 1:26,28; 2:15,
KJV) So there we have God's original purpose for the earth and mankind.

(2) "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited." (Isaiah 45:18, KJV) Again we can see that it was God's intention that the planet should be inhabited.

(3) God never changed his mind. Even after Adam rebelled, there was never any suggestion that humans would go anywhere else to live, even heaven. The Messiah was not to come so that people could go to heaven. Where in Genesis was that indicated? No, the Messiah would come to REINSTATE the good relationship between humans and the earth.

"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse [King David's father], and a Branch shall grow out of his roots [the Messiah]: and the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge, and of the fear of the LORD;...With righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked....The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf, and the young lion, and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them....They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD,
as the waters cover the sea." (Isaiah 11:1,2,4,6,9, KJV)

"For evildoers will be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth....The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever." (Psalm 37:9,29,
KJV)


I think we can see that the earth was meant to be a beautiful, peaceful home for humans, and they were expected to take care of it ("dress" and "keep" it), with even the animals at peace with them. Adam threw a wrench in the works for a time, but God never changed His original plans. He has arranged for His Son and a body of co-rulers to reign over the earth and guide humans in re-invigorating the planet and everything on it, and making the earth truly a wonderful home for all of us.

(4) "One of the elders said to me, 'Do not weep; behold, the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has overcome to open the scroll and its seven seals.' And I saw, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as if slain...And he came and took the scroll out of the right hand of him who sat upon the throne [YHWH]....And they [the four creatures and 24 elders in heaven before the throne] sing a new canticle, saying, 'Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals; for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us for God with they blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and hast made them for our God a kingdom and priests, and they shall reign over the earth.'" (The Apocalypse, chapter 5:1-10, Holy Trinity Edition of the Catholic Bible)

"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years....They will be priests of God and Christ, and will reign with him a thousand years." (The Apocalypse, chapter 20:4b,6)
 
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