PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

[TrevorL]

Greetings again KingdomRose,

Jesus Christ, "the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:16)

1 Timothy 6:13–16 (KJV): 13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 Timothy 6:13–16 (NWT 2013): 13 Before God, who preserves all things alive, and Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders 14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.
I suggest that 1 Timothy 6:16, "the one whom no man has seen or can see" is God the Father, not Jesus Christ as you state. God the Father alone “hath immortality”. In the sense that he has it underived. The Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God has been now given immortality. The Apostles and others saw Jesus after his resurrection. When Jesus returns to the earth he will reveal the glory of God His Father.

The Apostles Peter, James and John also saw Jesus in glory at his transfiguration and Peter states that this was a foretaste of the glory of Jesus that will be seen when he returns.
2 Peter 1:16–18 (KJV): 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2 Peter 1:16–18 (NWT 2013): 16 No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we made known to you the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but rather, we were eyewitnesses of his magnificence. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18 Yes, these words we heard coming from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Grosnick,

Hell (Hades) is a literal place that the unbelievers go after they die. The Lake of Fire is a literal place where Satan and his ilk, plus the unsaved will spend eternity.

Hades is the NT equivalent of the OT Sheol. These words represent the grave, not a place where immortal souls go and are tortured as taught by popular theology.
Psalm 49:14–15 (KJV): 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave (sheol); death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave (sheol) from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave (sheol): for he shall receive me. Selah.
Psalm 16:8-11 (KJV): I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (sheol); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
Acts 2:31–32 (KJV): 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Greetings again Grosnick, Hades is the NT equivalent of the OT Sheol. These words represent the grave, not a place where immortal souls go and are tortured as taught by popular theology.
Psalm 49:14–15 (KJV): 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave (sheol); death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave (sheol) from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave (sheol): for he shall receive me. Selah.
Psalm 16:8-11 (KJV): I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. 9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. 10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (sheol); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
Acts 2:31–32 (KJV): 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Kind regards
Trevor

So, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Greetings again KingdomRose,

1 Timothy 6:13–16 (KJV): 13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 Timothy 6:13–16 (NWT 2013): 13 Before God, who preserves all things alive, and Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders 14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.
I suggest that 1 Timothy 6:16, "the one whom no man has seen or can see" is God the Father, not Jesus Christ as you state. God the Father alone “hath immortality”. In the sense that he has it underived. The Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God has been now given immortality. The Apostles and others saw Jesus after his resurrection. When Jesus returns to the earth he will reveal the glory of God His Father.

The Apostles Peter, James and John also saw Jesus in glory at his transfiguration and Peter states that this was a foretaste of the glory of Jesus that will be seen when he returns.
2 Peter 1:16–18 (KJV): 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2 Peter 1:16–18 (NWT 2013): 16 No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we made known to you the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but rather, we were eyewitnesses of his magnificence. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18 Yes, these words we heard coming from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.

Kind regards
Trevor

What church or denomination are you affiliated with?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Grosnick,

So, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I was disappointed that you did not comment on Psalm 49:14, Psalm 16:8-11 and Acts 2:31. I was responding to your earlier post:

Hell (Hades) is a literal place that the unbelievers go after they die.

I suggest that if you check the various occurrences of Sheol in the OT it will show that your definition is not accurate. For example, even in Psalm 16:10 it speaks that David’s soul would at his death end up in Sheol. Psalm 16:10 also applies to Jesus, that for three days his soul would be in hell (sheol, and hades in Acts 2:31). Thus as both David and Jesus were in hell, then your definition is inaccurate, as even the faithful go to hell.

To understand Psalm 16, compare Psalm 6. Both these Psalms speak of David in distress, and his concern that he would die because of the pressing circumstances.
Psalm 6:4–5 (KJV): 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave (sheol) who shall give thee thanks?
Thus the translation of the KJV “the grave” represents the true meaning of the word “sheol” here. I suggest that “the grave” represents the true meaning of the word “sheol” in Psalm 16:10 and hence “hades” in Acts 2:31 also.

I would like to briefly mention that the basis of the OT teaching is Genesis 2:7 where the soul is defined, and Genesis 3:19 defines that man at death returns to the dust, not to heaven or hell.

This teaching from Genesis is also the basis of the second aspect of Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:31:
Psalm 16:10 (KJV): For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 (KJV): He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
This teaches that soon after the death of Jesus, he would be raised from the dead, and as a result his flesh would not return to the dust as had Adam and his descendants. This is a meeting the requirements of Genesis 3:19, but in Jesus there was a reversal of this sentence of death on Adam and his descendants. One of the unusual aspects of JW teaching is that they do not believe in the resurrection of the literal body of Jesus. To overcome the plain meaning of Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:31, they conjecture that the physical body of Jesus was preserved, something like Lenin or a Pharaoh.

What church or denomination are you affiliated with?

I fellowship with those who believe the gospel of Christ, and this contains the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ Acts 8:5-6,12.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Greetings again Grosnick, I was disappointed that you did not comment on Psalm 49:14, Psalm 16:8-11 and Acts 2:31. I was responding to your earlier post: I suggest that if you check the various occurrences of Sheol in the OT it will show that your definition is not accurate. For example, even in Psalm 16:10 it speaks that David’s soul would at his death end up in Sheol. Psalm 16:10 also applies to Jesus, that for three days his soul would be in hell (sheol, and hades in Acts 2:31). Thus as both David and Jesus were in hell, then your definition is inaccurate, as even the faithful go to hell.

To understand Psalm 16, compare Psalm 6. Both these Psalms speak of David in distress, and his concern that he would die because of the pressing circumstances.
Psalm 6:4–5 (KJV): 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave (sheol) who shall give thee thanks?
Thus the translation of the KJV “the grave” represents the true meaning of the word “sheol” here. I suggest that “the grave” represents the true meaning of the word “sheol” in Psalm 16:10 and hence “hades” in Acts 2:31 also.

I would like to briefly mention that the basis of the OT teaching is Genesis 2:7 where the soul is defined, and Genesis 3:19 defines that man at death returns to the dust, not to heaven or hell.

This teaching from Genesis is also the basis of the second aspect of Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:31:
Psalm 16:10 (KJV): For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31 (KJV): He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
This teaches that soon after the death of Jesus, he would be raised from the dead, and as a result his flesh would not return to the dust as had Adam and his descendants. This is a meeting the requirements of Genesis 3:19, but in Jesus there was a reversal of this sentence of death on Adam and his descendants. One of the unusual aspects of JW teaching is that they do not believe in the resurrection of the literal body of Jesus. To overcome the plain meaning of Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:31, they conjecture that the physical body of Jesus was preserved, something like Lenin or a Pharaoh.
I fellowship with those who believe the gospel of Christ, and this contains the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ Acts 8:5-6,12.

Kind regards
Trevor

I see. You don't wish to answer my question. There's always a sound reason/excuse for not answering such a simple question. It could be you're a member of a cult or other organization that you're embarrassed to admit being affiliated with? I don't blame ya, pal.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Grosnick,

I see. You don't wish to answer my question. There's always a sound reason/excuse for not answering such a simple question. It could be you're a member of a cult or other organization that you're embarrassed to admit being affiliated with? I don't blame ya, pal.

Possibly I was forewarned by a few of your recent posts, and the fact that you did not discuss some of the Scriptures mentioned. I agree with some aspects of KR posts, and have a respect for the sincerity of JWs, but I disagree with many of the details, such as aspects of the Kingdom and the resurrection of Christ.

My main impression of most mainstream Christians is that they believe that at death, their immortal soul goes to heaven or hell. Ask 10 different people in this category, “What is the Kingdom of God?”, and you could get 10 different answers. I disagree with most of these mainstream Christians and believe that the soul is mortal and I believe in the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns to establish his Kingdom upon the earth for the 1000 years - Paradise on earth, not in heaven Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Greetings again Grosnick, Possibly I was forewarned by a few of your recent posts, and the fact that you did not discuss some of the Scriptures mentioned. I agree with some aspects of KR posts, and have a respect for the sincerity of JWs, but I disagree with many of the details, such as aspects of the Kingdom and the resurrection of Christ.

My main impression of most mainstream Christians is that they believe that at death, their immortal soul goes to heaven or hell. Ask 10 different people in this category, “What is the Kingdom of God?”, and you could get 10 different answers. I disagree with most of these mainstream Christians and believe that the soul is mortal and I believe in the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns to establish his Kingdom upon the earth for the 1000 years - Paradise on earth, not in heaven Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14.

Kind regards
Trevor

It looks like you're still hiding something? Oh well, I've lost interest anyway.