Judge OK’s Petition for America’s First ‘Genderless’ Person

[eider]

All I can say is one would have to be a both moronic and boring to wish being gender-less.

I depends upon how interested you are in people.
With love, understanding and patience you could discover why a particular person wants, feels or needs to be genderless. If you took interest the answers would be widely varied, and not boring.

But first you would have to find the love and understanding.

I notice that you are in the women's club, so obviously you wouldn't find any women boring, I hope. Where live a significant % of women don't think that their name should announce their marital or patnership status so they choose to use Ms instead of Mrs in their titles. I haven't ever asked, but if I did ask I reckon that a % of women would ask for their passsports to be gender neutral....

A female executive who travels a lot might prefer that her passport is genderless for safety reasons, maybe; it's not what you or I think that such a person should do, it's what they think they need to do.

If you're bored you will never find out.

Christians don't get bored about people..... any people, anywhere.

 

[glassjester]

I depends upon how interested you are in people.
With love, understanding and patience you could discover why a particular person wants, feels or needs to be genderless.

I don't think the issue is whether someone genuinely wants to be (or "feels") genderless. The fact is that the person is not genuinely genderless. The court upheld a lie. That is not just.

The purpose of the court system is not to protect feelings, but to protect truth and justice.

If a defendant "feels" innocent, is it the court's job to vindicate his feelings?

 

[eider]

I don't think the issue is whether someone genuinely wants to be (or "feels") genderless. The fact is that the person is not genuinely genderless. The court upheld a lie. That is not just.

Hi...
A person can be physically genderless, as in the case of being an hermaphrodite, and equally a person can 'feel' genderless, psychologically genderless. I know people who definitely want to be genderless on the Electoral role, Council Tax list, Insurance policies, driving licences, passports etc, for security and safety reasons.

I don't happen to know anybody who wishes to be legally genderless but I have known three men who were all asexual...... no interest in a sexual relationship at all.

The purpose of the court system is not to protect feelings, but to protect truth and justice.

I don't know what your Courts hold to, but ours here in the UK make judgements; our Parliament writes the legislation that our Courts (and Judges) must follow.

If a defendant "feels" innocent, is it the court's job to vindicate his feelings?

Over here it's the Courts' duty to make judgements within current legislation.
It might surprise you but 'yes', feeling innocent in an trial/case can havre a huge effect upon a jury's finding and Judge's judgement. The opposite of innocent-feeling is 'guilty-mind'. Look up Mens Rea on, say, google.

But Christians are directed to obey the Judgements of their Courts and Governments, I think....

ROMANS 13:1 HEBREWS 13:17

 

[glassjester]

Hi...
A person can be physically genderless, as in the case of being an hermaphrodite,

Are you advocating a "genderless" legal status for hermaphrodites, only? Or just anybody who feels like making the claim?

and equally a person can 'feel' genderless, psychologically genderless.

Feeling a certain way, makes it so? Do you not believe that people can have delusions? Is it possible for someone to "feel" that something is true, but they are, in fact, wrong?

If I "feel" like an apple, should the court grant me the legal status of "apple" ? Why/why not?

I know people who definitely want to be genderless on the Electoral role, Council Tax list, Insurance policies, driving licences, passports etc, for security and safety reasons.

So?

I don't happen to know anybody who wishes to be legally genderless but I have known three men who were all asexual...... no interest in a sexual relationship at all.

Again... so? You just said you know three men who have no interest in sex. Are they no longer men? Is the priest of my parish not a man, because he is celibate? Was Christ genderless? No! What nonsense!

I don't know what your Courts hold to, but ours here in the UK make judgements; our Parliament writes the legislation that our Courts (and Judges) must follow.


Over here it's the Courts' duty to make judgements within current legislation.
It might surprise you but 'yes', feeling innocent in an trial/case can havre a huge effect upon a jury's finding and Judge's judgement. The opposite of innocent-feeling is 'guilty-mind'. Look up Mens Rea on, say, google.

When the defense claims innocence, and the prosecution claims guilt, it is the court's job to determine which is true, not to vindicate anyone's mere feelings.

But Christians are directed to obey the Judgements of their Courts and Governments, I think....

ROMANS 13:1 HEBREWS 13:17

We also worship the truth, as that is what our God says He is.

 

[Ktoyou]

I notice that you are in the women's club, so obviously you wouldn't find any women boring, I hope. Where live a significant % of women don't think that their name should announce their marital or patnership status so they choose to use Ms instead of Mrs in their titles. I haven't ever asked, but if I did ask I reckon that a % of women would ask for their passsports to be gender neutral....

.......

How silly you are! If a women does not want to take her husbands name, or use marital distinction, it does not mean she has no interest in being a female.

Only a silly man would presume a woman who did not wish to take her husbands name would also wish to be considered a nurtured sex, or no sex.

You are jumping to a ridiculous conclusion.

 

[eider]

Are you advocating a "genderless" legal status for hermaphrodites, only? Or just anybody who feels like making the claim?

Feeling a certain way, makes it so? Do you not believe that people can have delusions? Is it possible for someone to "feel" that something is true, but they are, in fact, wrong?

If I "feel" like an apple, should the court grant me the legal status of "apple" ? Why/why not?

So?

Again... so? You just said you know three men who have no interest in sex. Are they no longer men? Is the priest of my parish not a man, because he is celibate? Was Christ genderless? No! What nonsense!

You answered your own questions, just there.
You asked if your priest is not a man. I dunno. We have priests here who are women. And Bishops. All approved by our Synod. What can I say?

But unless that Judge's decision is over-ruled, I guess that you're just going to have to respect that judgement.

When the defense claims innocence, and the prosecution claims guilt, it is the court's job to determine which is true, not to vindicate anyone's mere feelings.

I don't know how your Courts work, but innocent-mind and guilty-mind count so much here that a sentence to that very effect is seen above our Benches.
Honi Soit Qui Mali Pense. ....or....... Evil be who Evil thinks.

How much Evil do you think is in all this ruling?

We also worship the truth, as that is what our God says He is.

........ sure you do. But don't overlook ROMANS 13:1 or HEBREWS 13:17 because that is what God demands, as shown in His Divine instructions, written by His Ordained Apostle.

 

[eider]

How silly you are! If a women does not want to take her husbands name, or use marital distinction, it does not mean she has no interest in being a female.

Yes...... so silly. But so far today I have asked three women if they would prefer to be unrecognisable, like genderless, on public records and documents. I got three 'yesses' from three women. The distinction is that these women live alone.

Only a silly man would presume a woman who did not wish to take her husbands name would also wish to be considered a nurtured sex, or no sex.

Well, as you have already pointed out, I am just a silly man, but it does appear as if some women would prefer to be genderless on some records.
It does look as if Stonewall's initiative for our Government to offer genderlress passports to travellers might be well received if made law.

You are jumping to a ridiculous conclusion.

Was the US Judge a silly man? I expect that must be so, because your Judge made judgement for genderless identity.

But until overturned, if ever overturned, as a Christian you would need to acknowledge the Judgement. Saint Paul was Ordained to write that you must obey civil laws, and he was a man as well, although not silly like me..... and that Judge.

 

[Ktoyou]

Yes...... so silly. But so far today I have asked three women if they would prefer to be unrecognisable, like genderless, on public records and documents. I got three 'yesses' from three women. The distinction is that these women live alone.

Well maybe they are alone because they shun natural relationships?

Well, as you have already pointed out, I am just a silly man, but it does appear as if some women would prefer to be genderless on some records.
It does look as if Stonewall's initiative for our Government to offer genderlress passports to travellers might be well received if made law.

The making of the "it" people?

When I think of Stonewall, I think of Jackson.

 

[eider]

Well maybe they are alone because they shun natural relationships?

Oh.... you! You must have been thinking that those three women are not....... you know, heterosexual? Is that where you got 'Shun natural relationships' from?
Bless you! Two of those women are widows, and the third is married.
Never mind..... what else did you have to say...........

The making of the "it" people?

No..... the making of 'other' people. I chose 'other' because that is what Canadians can choose for gender on licence and passport apps.

In fact, what with genderless schools in Sweden, and the UK's possible acceptance of genderless ID, it's beginning to look..... well..... quite a good idea?

Maybe I'm not so silly after all?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gen...t-travel-identification-male-female-1.3835344
The federal government has begun accepting gender-neutral travel for people planning to fly into, or through, Canada.

https://www.theguardian.com/.../02/swedish-schools-gender-alien-concept
2 Feb 2016 ... 'It's all about democracy': inside gender neutral schools in Sweden .... They are
going to live in another sort of society. We have to prepare them ...

UK 'should strip' gender from passports, driving licences - Mashable
mashable.com/2016/01/04/genderless-passports-uk/
A Conservative MP Maria Miller has called for people's gender to be removed from passports
and driving licences in a bid to end transgender ...

 

[Ktoyou]

They are "it" people.

 

[glassjester]

You answered your own questions, just there.
You asked if your priest is not a man. I dunno. We have priests here who are women. And Bishops. All approved by our Synod. What can I say?

What is it that you are claiming here? That unless someone has sex with a woman, he is not a man?

I don't know how your Courts work, but innocent-mind and guilty-mind count so much here that a sentence to that very effect is seen above our Benches.
Honi Soit Qui Mali Pense. ....or....... Evil be who Evil thinks.

Notice, it does not say, "Guilty be who guilty thinks."


You didn't answer my question before. Is it possible for someone to "feel" that something is true, but to be wrong about it?

If I "feel like" an apple, am I an apple? Or would that just be a delusion?

 

[ok doser]

if you feel like an apple, you have the right to demand that society accept your self-definition as an apple and treat you like an apple and accommodate all your special apple needs and demands


otoh, i may bake a pie with you later on, so don't roll away :chew:

 

[eider]

What is it that you are claiming here? That unless someone has sex with a woman, he is not a man?

What was I claiming? The only claim I made was that....... here, I'll write it again for you..... I only mentioned it because you mentioned your male priest...... :-
'We have priests here who are women. And Bishops. All approved by our Synod. What can I say?'

I was only saying....

Notice, it does not say, "Guilty be who guilty thinks."

I noticed. But that sentence 'Evil be who Evil thinks' is very accurate.

You didn't answer my question before. Is it possible for someone to "feel" that something is true, but to be wrong about it?

Well, take your position, for example, here is a question:- Do you feel that all people who wish to be recognised as Genderless are bad people, or in some way perverted, or in any way bad because of their wish? Whatever your feelings, could you be wrong about them?

If I "feel like" an apple, am I an apple? Or would that just be a delusion?

Well, if you take your feelings about people who wish to be Genderless, whatever they might be, or that Judge who judged the situation for an individual, could your feelings just be a delusion?

Maybe that Judge is clearer of mind than some might think?

 

[glassjester]

Well, take your position, for example, here is a question:- Do you feel that all people who wish to be recognised as Genderless are bad people, or in some way perverted, or in any way bad because of their wish?


Whatever your feelings, could you be wrong about them?

I believe they are delusional. Of course, I could be incorrect. So what evidence is there to the contrary?

Well, if you take your feelings about people who wish to be Genderless, whatever they might be, or that Judge who judged the situation for an individual, could your feelings just be a delusion?

Maybe that Judge is clearer of mind than some might think?

You still refuse to answer the question. If I "feel" like an apple, would you believe that I am an apple, or would you consider it a delusion? Why?

 

[eider]

I believe they are delusional. Of course, I could be incorrect. So what evidence is there to the contrary?

But what evidence is there in support of your belief?
And Canada, Sweden and probably others are ahead of that US Judge, with the UK following on close behind.
And if it's civil law, then you must acknowledge and obey it. Of course it could be over-ruled, or you could vote for somebody who will change the law?

You still refuse to answer the question. If I "feel" like an apple, would you believe that I am an apple, or would you consider it a delusion? Why?

Now..... how did Jesus cope with those devious priests who asked him 'Should we pay taxes to Caesar?'.
He answered with a question..... 'Who's face and whose inscription?'
What a brilliant lesson for anybody being harried by cunning deception.

I often 'feel' like an apple.... with cheese and biscuits...... for the most brilliant snack.
However, I do believe that you 'feel' righteous about this debate........ and that I do believe is a serious delusion.

Do you 'feel' that Jesus would be in hot contention about that judgement? I doubt it!

 

[glassjester]

But what evidence is there in support of your belief?

Define "male." Define "female."

Then explain to me how the person in question is neither.

Now..... how did Jesus cope with those devious priests who asked him 'Should we pay taxes to Caesar?'.
He answered with a question..... 'Who's face and whose inscription?'
What a brilliant lesson for anybody being harried by cunning deception.

I often 'feel' like an apple.... with cheese and biscuits...... for the most brilliant snack.
However, I do believe that you 'feel' righteous about this debate........ and that I do believe is a serious delusion.

Do you 'feel' that Jesus would be in hot contention about that judgement? I doubt it!

This has nothing to do with whether or not I am righteous. It's a matter of truth, of correctness.

Quit dodging. Just address the question.

If I say that I am an apple, would I be correct? Would I be speaking the truth?


This should be easy for you to answer. Yet you will not.

 

[eider]

Define "male." Define "female."

Then explain to me how the person in question is neither.

Another of your pushy questions, eh?
Now.......... I simply explain that a Judge, a US Judge, has decided that a person can be neither male nor female. It's possible physically either by birth or by surgery, it's possible psychologically and I expect that it's possible spiritually.
And you don't get to decide that a US Judge is wrong about that.

This has nothing to do with whether or not I am righteous. It's a matter of truth, of correctness.

Oh yes it does! Quite dodging the question and answer. 'Do you 'feel' righteous about this matter, or should I say 'self-righteous'?

Quit dodging. Just address the question.
If I say that I am an apple, would I be correct? Would I be speaking the truth?
This should be easy for you to answer. Yet you will not.

Your question is a wonderful example of how you see the World, and human beings.
Over a seriously deep matter which almost certainly will affect many many asexual folks, you decide to use 'an apple' as the perfect analogy to use in amn equation about deep personal feelings.

Let your apple be a lump of stone, dear member, and may you read about how Jesus gave the boatman Simon a name, 'Cephas'. Now how do you think Simon 'felt' about that, eh? Do you think Simon felt deluded about being 'Cephas', the anchorman for a huge new religion? You just have to read your bible to be guided towards some light, love and understanding for such persons as those who seek neutrality in the matter of sexual identity.

Now answer me that.... How did Simon 'feel' about being nominated as 'Cephas'?

 

[glassjester]

Another of your pushy questions, eh?
Now.......... I simply explain that a Judge, a US Judge, has decided that a person can be neither male nor female. It's possible physically either by birth or by surgery, it's possible psychologically and I expect that it's possible spiritually.
And you don't get to decide that a US Judge is wrong about that.

You don't think judges can be incorrect? They can. They are human.

Oh yes it does! Quite dodging the question and answer. 'Do you 'feel' righteous about this matter, or should I say 'self-righteous'?

I believe I am correct. And you believe the same about your statements.

I don't think being correct makes me righteous.
Does your being correct make you righteous?

Your question is a wonderful example of how you see the World, and human beings.
Over a seriously deep matter which almost certainly will affect many many asexual folks, you decide to use 'an apple' as the perfect analogy to use in amn equation about deep personal feelings.

Let your apple be a lump of stone, dear member, and may you read about how Jesus gave the boatman Simon a name, 'Cephas'. Now how do you think Simon 'felt' about that, eh? Do you think Simon felt deluded about being 'Cephas', the anchorman for a huge new religion? You just have to read your bible to be guided towards some light, love and understanding for such persons as those who seek neutrality in the matter of sexual identity.

Now answer me that.... How did Simon 'feel' about being nominated as 'Cephas'?

What's so difficult about this?

Four times I have asked.
You simply refuse to answer.

I am an apple.
Do you believe me?

 

[eider]

s

You don't think judges can be incorrect? They can. They are human.

I believe I am correct. And you believe the same about your statements.

Judges can make mistakes, sure, but Judges have been chosen for their abilitry to judge.

What do you, or did you, do for a living?

I don't think being correct makes me righteous.
Does your being correct make you righteous?

Let's face it, you're just prejudiced about folks who want to be acknowledged as genderless.

What's so difficult about this?

Four times I have asked.
You simply refuse to answer.
I am an apple.
Do you believe me?

How...... just how does your question have any connection with or to a person who feels genderless, or asexual?
Your question doesn't deserve serious thought or answer.

But if you ask me if I would believe you if you stated,'I'm not sexually attracted to either men or women, and I don't feel that I can identify with either gender'..... then I would believe you and seek to understand that mindset.

I can't see you setting out to try and understand such a mindset...... somehow.

Where in the New Testament is there anything written against asexual folks? Time for you to answer a question.

 

[glassjester]

Judges can make mistakes, sure, but Judges have been chosen for their abilitry to judge.

What do you, or did you, do for a living?

I don't see how that would matter.
We can use plain reason to determine whether a person is truly genderless or simply delusional.

Let's face it, you're just prejudiced about folks who want to be acknowledged as genderless.

And you are prejudiced against folks who want to be acknowledged as apples.

How...... just how does your question have any connection with or to a person who feels genderless, or asexual?
Your question doesn't deserve serious thought or answer.

But if you ask me if I would believe you if you stated,'I'm not sexually attracted to either men or women, and I don't feel that I can identify with either gender'..... then I would believe you and seek to understand that mindset.

I can't see you setting out to try and understand such a mindset...... somehow.

I am trying right now. I asked you to explain how the person in the OP is neither male nor female. But you ignored my request.

Where in the New Testament is there anything written against asexual folks? Time for you to answer a question.

Stop conflating asexuality with "genderlessness." An asexual man is still a man. An asexual woman is still a woman.

If I am wrong, explain how, please. What makes someone male?