Jacob saw God and wrestled with Him

[Elia]

There is and always was only ONE SAVIOR for Israel.

Bs"d

And this is Him:

My Savior is Y-H-W-H:

Isaiah 43: 3: "For I am Y-H-W-H thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy saviour."

Isaiah 43:10-11: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am Y-H-W-H, and beside Me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 45:21-22: "... I Y-H-W-H, and there is no God else beside Me, a just God and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else."

Hosea 13: 4: "Yet I am Y-H-W-H thy God, and thou shall know no God but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me."

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[beameup]

Judges 2:13 - And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth
Amos 5:26 - But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun (Rompha) your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
Moloch was particularly interesting as Jews sacrificed their babies to that demon by burning them slowly to death.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Jews before the 1st century AD clearly believed in TWO POWERS: "The Ancient of Days" and the "Son of Man"-"Son of God". Daniel 7 was a clear and concise revelation of this FACT. The truth is is that they simply "didn't like the way Yeshua looked", so they "threw him overboard". Jews have been lied to about this for 2,000 years. Now, as to the "trinity" as you call it, it is much harder to find that revealed in the Tanakh. The "Son" is the focus of the Tanakh and makes numerous "manlike" appearances. There is and always was only ONE SAVIOR for Israel. If you see yourself as "SINLESS" then you disqualify yourself as needing a SAVIOR.

Indeed, the "Son" is the focus of the Tanach but, who is the Son of God? Read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." That's the Son of God in the Tanach. If you wanna compare them with the second person of the Trinity, do it but we won't like it.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Jews before the 1st century AD clearly believed in TWO POWERS: "The Ancient of Days" and the "Son of Man"-"Son of God". Daniel 7 was a clear and concise revelation of this FACT. The truth is is that they simply "didn't like the way Yeshua looked", so they "threw him overboard". Jews have been lied to about this for 2,000 years. Now, as to the "trinity" as you call it, it is much harder to find that revealed in the Tanakh. The "Son" is the focus of the Tanakh and makes numerous "manlike" appearances. There is and always was only ONE SAVIOR for Israel. If you see yourself as "SINLESS" then you disqualify yourself as needing a SAVIOR.

Indeed, the "Son" is the focus of the Tanach but, who is the Son of God? Read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." That's the Son of God in the Tanach. If you wanna compare him with the second person of the Trinity, go ahead and do it. It won't mean a thing to us anyway.

 

[Apple7]

We only worship the one and only true God, the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; Y-H-W-H who is one.

Your Tanak says, over and over, that you failed to correctly worship God.

 

[Apple7]

The Righteous in the OT worshiped God as Triune.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Apple7,

The Righteous in the OT worshiped God as Triune.

Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV): Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Mark 12:28-34 (KJV): 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
One Yahweh, one God, one God the Father, not three.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Indeed, the "Son" is the focus of the Tanach but, who is the Son of God? Read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." That's the Son of God in the Tanach. If you wanna compare them with the second person of the Trinity, do it but we won't like it.

You fail to observe "the entire council of God", in that you "cherry-pick" which verses in the Tanakh to acknowledge, and which verses to purposely ignore.
To those that have been given more "information" (ie: Torah/Tanakh), to them will be the greater responsibility and accountability before God.

In my previous posts, I've addressed these "ignored verses".

 

[Apple7]

Greetings Apple7,

Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV): Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Mark 12:28-34 (KJV): 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
One Yahweh, one God, one God the Father, not three.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jesus always taught that Salvation comes from the Triune God.

Why do you think that He referenced The Shema as the most important thing?

Jesus' reply was to a scribe...i.e. someone who knows the Hebrew scriptures of the OT.

Jesus references Deut 6.4- 5 which, in the Hebrew, declares the following...


• Tetragrammaton = singular
• Elohim = Plural
• Echad = one unity
• The juxtaposed words…Tetragrammaton, Elohim, Tetragrammaton, Echad
• God is referred to not once, not twice, but three times
• Singular, Plural, Singular
• These three are one unity
• Singular = Plural
• Plural = Singular
• God = Gods
• God is clearly singular
• God is clearly plural
• God is Uniplural

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Apple7,

Jesus always taught that Salvation comes from the Triune God.
Why do you think that He referenced The Shema as the most important thing?
Jesus' reply was to a scribe...i.e. someone who knows the Hebrew scriptures of the OT.

Mark 12:32 (KJV): And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
I appreciate your response, but I suggest, from what the scribe said above in the presence of Jesus, that he did not go away from Jesus believing that Jesus was the second person of the Trinity.

Jesus references Deut 6.4- 5 which, in the Hebrew, declares the following...
• Tetragrammaton = singular
• Elohim = Plural
• Echad = one unity
• The juxtaposed words…Tetragrammaton, Elohim, Tetragrammaton, Echad
• God is referred to not once, not twice, but three times
• Singular, Plural, Singular
• These three are one unity
• Singular = Plural
• Plural = Singular
• God = Gods
• God is clearly singular
• God is clearly plural
• God is Uniplural

I understand the various possibilities of singularity and plurality of the words used in Deuteronomy 6:4 but I draw a different conclusion from these. The plurality can represent the One God revealed through many, not three Gods or persons who are one God. Yahweh is singular. The concept of the Trinity does not fit with Deuteronomy 6:4 nor with the OT and NT teaching that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Greetings Apple7,
Mark 12:32 (KJV): And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
I appreciate your response, but I suggest, from what the scribe said above in the presence of Jesus, that he did not go away from Jesus believing that Jesus was the second person of the Trinity.

Hi Trevor,

Many Jews knew who Jesus was when He came to them.

Others did not.

I understand the various possibilities of singularity and plurality of the words used in Deuteronomy 6:4 but I draw a different conclusion from these. The plurality can represent the One God revealed through many, not three Gods or persons who are one God. Yahweh is singular. The concept of the Trinity does not fit with Deuteronomy 6:4 nor with the OT and NT teaching that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is The Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

This should shed some light...

God The Father was known as:

• Yahweh
• Elohim ‘God’
• El Elyon ‘God Most High’ (Gen 14.18, 19, 20, 22)
• El Olam ‘God Eternal’ (Gen 21.33
• Adonai Yahweh ‘Lord Yahweh’ (Gen 15.2, 8)


God The Son was known as:

• El Shaddai ‘God of Mighty Ones’ (Gen 17.1, 28.3, 35.11, 43.14, 48.3, 49.25; Exo 6.3)
• Elohim ‘God’ (Gen 16.13, 22.12, 31.13; Exo 3.6)
• The Malek Elohim ‘The Messenger of God’ (Gen 21.17; 31.11)
• The Malek Yahweh ‘ The Messenger of Yahweh’ (Gen 16.7, 9 - 11; 22.11, 15)
• Debar Yahweh ‘The Word of Yahweh’ (Gen 15.1, 4; Exo 9.20, 21)


God The Spirit was known as:

• The Ruach of Elohim ‘Spirit of God’ (Gen 1.2)
• The Ruach of Yahweh ‘Spirit of Yahweh’ (Gen 6.3)

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Many Jews knew who Jesus was when He came to them.
Others did not.

Yes both Jews and Gentiles believed on Jesus. They believed in the One God, the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

This should shed some light...
God The Father was known as:
• Yahweh
• Elohim ‘God’
• El Elyon ‘God Most High’ (Gen 14.18, 19, 20, 22)
• El Olam ‘God Eternal’ (Gen 21.33
• Adonai Yahweh ‘Lord Yahweh’ (Gen 15.2, 8)

Agreed. All of these titles and names speak of Yahweh, the one God, the Father.

God The Son was known as:
• El Shaddai ‘God of Mighty Ones’ (Gen 17.1, 28.3, 35.11, 43.14, 48.3, 49.25; Exo 6.3)
• Elohim ‘God’ (Gen 16.13, 22.12, 31.13; Exo 3.6)

I disagree here. These titles and names also speak of Yahweh, the one God, the Father. There is no mention of a being called “God the Son” in the OT or NT.

God The Son was known as:
• The Malek Elohim ‘The Messenger of God’ (Gen 21.17; 31.11)
• The Malek Yahweh ‘ The Messenger of Yahweh’ (Gen 16.7, 9 - 11; 22.11, 15)
• Debar Yahweh ‘The Word of Yahweh’ (Gen 15.1, 4; Exo 9.20, 21)

I disagree here. These titles are speaking of the Angel of God. Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, and he is now exalted above the angels.

God The Spirit was known as:
• The Ruach of Elohim ‘Spirit of God’ (Gen 1.2)
• The Ruach of Yahweh ‘Spirit of Yahweh’ (Gen 6.3)

The title "God the Spirit" is not found in the OT or NT. The Holy Spirit is God's power.

On the subject of the plural aspect of the Hebrew word “Elohim” I would consider Genesis 1:26 and compare David’s succinct comments and interpretation of the creation record in Psalm 8, showing that the angels cooperated with God the Father in the creation.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

God the Son also presented himself to Joshua at the battle of Jericho,
as the Captain of the LORD's host, and Joshua WORSHIPPED at his feet.
God the Son is also called "the Finger of God" (He wrote upon the stone tablets),
and the "Arm of the LORD" (or variations: God's Holy Arm, God's Outstretched Arm")
as He lead the children of Israel out of Egypt through the wilderness.
God the Son has from the beginning, in the Garden of Eden, come from heaven and appeared to men.

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7, Yes both Jews and Gentiles believed on Jesus. They believed in the One God, the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Its all in The Name.

Jesus' Name is the same for each Person of The Trinity, as told to us in the baptismal formula...


Mat 28.19

πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος

Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


This passage contains arthrous substantives connected via kai which indicates distinction and separate referents.

However, while distinction is made between the referents, each has the same singular name.

Three Persons in one Being.

This same singular name of three persons’ baptism is the same as the Aaronic blessing in which the singular name of Yahweh is repeated three times (Num 6.22 – 27).

Separate and yet the same, The Trinity.

I disagree here. These titles and names also speak of Yahweh, the one God, the Father. There is no mention of a being called “God the Son” in the OT or NT.

In the examples provided, it refers to God The Son.

The Second Person of The Trinity was not referred to as The Son until NT times.

I disagree here. These titles are speaking of the Angel of God. Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, and he is now exalted above the angels.

The term here is Malek Yahweh...literally 'Messenger of Yahweh'.

Jesus was even referred to this title in the NT, as thus...

Gal 4.13 -14

But you know that because of weakness of the flesh, I announced the gospel to you before; and you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but you received me as a Messenger of God (Theos), as Christ Jesus.

The title "God the Spirit" is not found in the OT or NT. The Holy Spirit is God's power.

The Holy Spirit is God.

On the subject of the plural aspect of the Hebrew word “Elohim” I would consider Genesis 1:26 and compare David’s succinct comments and interpretation of the creation record in Psalm 8, showing that the angels cooperated with God the Father in the creation.

Kind regards
Trevor

Gen 1.26 - 27

And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth. And God created (bara) the man in His own image; in the image of God He created (bara)him. He created (bara) them male and female.

This Gen 1 passage informs the reader that our Creator God is plural, via the usage of ‘us’ and ‘our’…repeated three times.

Immediately after this declaration, the creative verb ‘bara’ is utilized three successive acts when once should have sufficed. Another clear indicator of The Triune Creator.

The creation verb 'bara' is only used in creative acts by God, Himself, in scripture...not by angels.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Its all in The Name.
Jesus' Name is the same for each Person of The Trinity, as told to us in the baptismal formula...
Mat 28.19 Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
However, while distinction is made between the referents, each has the same singular name.
Three Persons in one Being.

I appreciate your response and the level of your language specialisation. I have deleted part of your response back to my level, and I suggest that some with similar language skills may question your claims in that area. My understanding is that God has revealed His Name as Yahweh, and in the primary sense this refers to the One God, the Father. This Yahweh Name is incorporated in the Name Jesus, and excuse my lack of language accuracy, this could be represented as Yah-oshea, that is, the shortened version of Yahweh coupled with the Hebrew word for salvation. This then is the One God, Yahweh, the Father giving birth to the Son of God, through whom the Father uses to bring salvation.

Jesus has now been given the Name Yahweh as implied in the following, and yes, hence, God the Father and Jesus have the same Name, because the Name is speaking of the process of salvation, not the same being(s).
Philippians 2:8-11 (KJV): 8 And being found in fashiona as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Notice also that this is to the glory of God the Father, not to the Trinity, or God the Son.

The term here is Malek Yahweh...literally 'Messenger of Yahweh'.
Jesus was even referred to this title in the NT, as thus...
Gal 4.13 -14 But you know that because of weakness of the flesh, I announced the gospel to you before; and you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but you received me as a Messenger of God (Theos), as Christ Jesus.

The part “a Messenger of God” is not defining Jesus, but the way they had received Paul when he first preached to them, even as a direct messenger from God. It is also true that Jesus is God's messenger, the messenger of the covenant as Malachi 3 describes.

Gen 1.26 - 27 And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth. And God created (bara) the man in His own image; in the image of God He created (bara)him. He created (bara) them male and female.

This Gen 1 passage informs the reader that our Creator God is plural, via the usage of ‘us’ and ‘our’…repeated three times.
Immediately after this declaration, the creative verb ‘bara’ is utilized three successive acts when once should have sufficed. Another clear indicator of The Triune Creator.
The creation verb 'bara' is only used in creative acts by God, Himself, in scripture...not by angels.

I believe that God the Father invites the angels to cooperate in the formation of man, and hence David’s summary of this:
Psalm 8:1-6 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordaineda strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
David addresses Yahweh, the Creator and speaks of Yahweh’s creation of man a little lower than the angels (Elohim). David also uses this language of the Genesis creation to speak of Jesus who also was created through Mary a little lower than the angels. There is one God, the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[iouae]

And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him and he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. - Genesis 32:24-30

When the OT says "The word of the LORD came unto so-and-so" the Hebrew "Dabar YHWH" or "WORD GOD" viz. Jesus Christ came to those OT men of faith. Christ is the Word God.

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7,
I appreciate your response and the level of your language specialisation. I have deleted part of your response back to my level, and I suggest that some with similar language skills may question your claims in that area.

No problem, Trevor...

My understanding is that God has revealed His Name as Yahweh, and in the primary sense this refers to the One God, the Father. This Yahweh Name is incorporated in the Name Jesus, and excuse my lack of language accuracy, this could be represented as Yah-oshea, that is, the shortened version of Yahweh coupled with the Hebrew word for salvation. This then is the One God, Yahweh, the Father giving birth to the Son of God, through whom the Father uses to bring salvation.

What scripture do you use to arrive at this conclusion?

Jesus has now been given the Name Yahweh as implied in the following, and yes, hence, God the Father and Jesus have the same Name, because the Name is speaking of the process of salvation, not the same being(s).
Philippians 2:8-11 (KJV): 8 And being found in fashiona as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Paul more than likely was referring to the numerous OT passages referring to the Most Highs (plural) which reside in the Aramaic of the Book of Daniel.

Trevor, you, and others are missing out dearly by not studying the original languages of scripture...

Notice also that this is to the glory of God the Father, not to the Trinity, or God the Son.

Again...even a cursory glance at scripture in both the OT and the NT, we can easily see that Jesus is referred to as 'The Glory'.

Here is a knock-out example of The Trinity in action from the OT, in which we see that The Son is referred to as 'The Glory'...


We have the Son proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Word (Eze 1.3)
• Also called the Glory(Eze 1.28)
• The Glory has the appearance of a Man (Eze 1.26 – 28)
• Compare how the NT refers to the Son as the Glory & the Word (John 1.14; Heb 1.3)
• Ezekiel states that the Glory by the river (Eze 1.3, 28) is the same Glory as mentioned throughout the book (Eze 3.22 – 23; 10.18 – 20; 43.3)


We have the Spirit proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Man that is portrayed in (Eze 8.1 - 3) is also mentioned in (Eze 40.3)
• The Man is a representation of the Spirit (Eze 8.2 – 3; 43.5 – 6)
• The Hand of Yahweh is also the Spirit (Eze 3.14; 8.3; 37.1)
• The Man and the Glory are often associated with Yahweh
• We have the Man bringing Ezekiel back to the east gate (Eze 44.1)
• Prior to this, the Man was w/Ezekiel by the east gate (Eze 43.1)


We have the Trinity proclaimed in Ezekiel:

• The Spirit & the Glory are mentioned together – but at the same time, distinction is made between them (Eze 1.28 – 2.2; 3.12 – 14, 23 – 24; 8.3 – 4; 10.18 – 11.1, 22 – 23; 43.1 – 5)
• The Man quotes the Father (Yahweh) (Eze 44.6; 45.9, 18; 46.1, 16; 47.13)
• The Glory quotes the Father (Yahweh) (Eze 3.11 – 12; 11.5; 43.18, 19, 27)
• The Man (Eze 44.1) referred the Glory, and went through the east gate into the temple (Eze 43.2 – 5), as Yahweh the Father (Eze 44.2)
• Therefore, the Glory (the Word) is the Son
• The Man (The Hand of Yahweh) is the Spirit
• Yahweh is the Father

 

[Apple7]

The part “a Messenger of God” is not defining Jesus, but the way they had received Paul when he first preached to them, even as a direct messenger from God. It is also true that Jesus is God's messenger, the messenger of the covenant as Malachi 3 describes.

Here we have scriptural confirmation that the One God who spoke to Moses from the burning bush is actually The Messenger of The Lord, Malek Yahweh, The Second Person of The Trinity, The Son…


Mark 12.26

But concerning the dead, that they are raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, as God spoke to him at the Bush, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"?

Mark 12 informs the reader that God spoke to Moses from the burning bush.


Compare...


Acts 7.30 - 39

And forty years being fulfilled to him, The Messenger of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire in a bush in the wilderness of Mount Sinai. And seeing, Moses marveled at the sight. And he coming up to look, a voice of the Lord came to him: "I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Ex. 3:6, 15 But becoming trembly, Moses did not dare to look. And the Lord said to him, "Loosen the sandal from your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground. I surely saw the affliction of My people in Egypt, and I have heard their groan, and I came down to pluck them out. And now, come, I will send you to" Egypt. Ex. 3:5, 7, 8a, 10a This Moses, whom they denied, saying, Who appointed you a ruler and a judge, this one God has sent as ruler and redeemer by the hand of the Messenger who appeared to him in the Bush. This one led them out, having worked wonders and miraculous signs in the land of Egypt and in the Red Sea, and forty years in the wilderness. This is the Moses who said to the sons of Israel, " The Lord your God will raise up a Prophet to you" "from your brothers, One like me." You shall hear Him. Deut. 18:15 This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him in Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received living Words to give to us, to whom our fathers did not desire to be subject, but thrust him away, and turned their hearts back to Egypt,


Acts 7 informs the reader that The Messenger of The Lord appeared and spoke to Moses from the burning bush.

Thus…The Messenger of The Lord is God.

 

[Apple7]

I believe that God the Father invites the angels to cooperate in the formation of man, and hence David’s summary of this:
Psalm 8:1-6 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordaineda strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
David addresses Yahweh, the Creator and speaks of Yahweh’s creation of man a little lower than the angels (Elohim). David also uses this language of the Genesis creation to speak of Jesus who also was created through Mary a little lower than the angels. There is one God, the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

If you already acknowledge that David is addressing Yahweh, only, then how is it that you then take the leap that he is also addressing the angels - when the angels are merely used in the discourse as a reference point?

 

[Apple7]

There is one God, the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

οιδαμεν δε οτι ο υιος του θεου ηκει και δεδωκεν ημιν διανοιαν ινα γινωσκομεν τον αληθινον και εσμεν εν τω αληθινω εν τω υιω αυτου ιησου χριστω ουτος εστιν ο αληθινος θεος και ζωη αιωνιος

oidamen de hoti ho huios tou theou hēkei kai dedōken hēmin dianoian hina ginōskōmen ton alēthinon kai esmen en tō huiō autou Iēsou Christō houtos estin ho alēthinos theos kai zōē aiōnios

And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given to us an understanding that we may know the true One, and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and the life eternal. (1 John 5.20)


This passage informs the reader that Jesus Christ is the true God.