Greetings again Apple7,
It depends on the context.
In your example of Psalm 8, it is plural - again, a reference to the plural nature of the One Yahweh.
Not sure what you are claiming is plural. Is Psalm 8:1 KJV: “O LORD our
Lord” plural? I understand that this “Lord” is also Adon S#113. Jesus, when he alludes to and quotes Psalm 8 in Matthew 11:25 (KJV) addresses Yahweh as “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth”. There is no plural here. But I was talking about “my Lord” in Psalm 110:1. It seems to be Adon, not Adonay.
Neither in the Hebrew, nor the Greek, does it ever state that Jesus was somehow 'created'.
So...yes, Trevor, you are reading way too much into English renderings, which, in no way, shape, or form promote your worldview.
I will accept your criticism, but I believe that God the Father conceived Jesus in the womb, and this in effect was a creative process on the Divine side.
Actually, it does not. But...feel free to provide your exegesis nonetheless..
All, of which, dovetails with a plural Creator.
Actually, all you did was to make the assertion, Trevor.
Where does scripture use 'bara' with respect to anything other than God?
Feel free to start a new thread.
Most of the above is concerning my suggestion concerning Genesis 1:1,26-27 and Psalm 8. Instead of starting a new thread, initially I will give a brief summary, and if you give an adequate and convincing contrary or qualifying reply, then I will be satisfied.
I agree that Elohim can be plural, and most probably part of a family of words derived from “El”, and containing Eloah as well. I understand that “El” represents the One God, but the word can be used simply as “power”. Thus “El” is more of a title, representing that He is the source of Strength and Power. Similarly Eloah is Powerful One, and Elohim is a plural of Eloah, representing Powerful or Strong Ones.
We have the problem in Genesis 1:1 where a plural noun has a singular verb “God created”. This is further complicated by the plural and singular occurrences in:
Genesis 1:26-27 (KJV) 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
I read this to say that God invites others to participate in the creation of man in their combined image,
our image, and yet the summary after the event is that God created man in
his own image.
Were the created man and woman equal or lesser than God (Elohim)? Undoubtedly lesser, because the serpent appealed to their lack of knowledge and after their sin they were also refused access to the tree of life that would have enabled them to live for ever.
Were the created man and woman equal or lesser than the other participants in the creative process? Undoubtedly lesser and David gives us a clue as to whom these beings were:
Psalm 8:4-6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet[/u]:
But the word translated “angels” here is Elohim, and this shows that this word can be understood as God Himself, or God and the angels, and in this case the angels themselves. Elohim can also speak of one angel, as in the case of Jacob wrestling with an angel. Other examples of Elohim representing one angel are in Genesis 17:22 and Exodus 3:2-6.
Kind regards
Trevor
