From chat: On Jesus and Homosexuality

Nang

TOL Subscriber
This is a good point.

The BOC is a new creation.

There are two different words used in the Greek NT to describe "new".

One is kainos.
One is neos.

Neos is in respect to age --- new born baby, brand new car, etc. (something you did not have before).

Kainos is in respect to condition --- pristine, unblemished, spotless. (doesn't matter how long you have had it).


Now, you can be neos, but not kainos.
A brand new car can be defective (blemished in some way). If it's defective, it is not kainos.

Or you can be both neos and kainos.
A brand new car that is pristine, no blemishes.

Or you can be kainos, but not neos.
You can wash, starch, and iron an old shirt (making is pristine, but it's not a new (neos) shirt).


The "new" creature that we become in the BOC is kainos. (2 Cor 5:17 and Gal 6:15)
Doesn't matter how old you were when you were saved into the BOC (like an old shirt cleaned up).
What you become is kainos --- pristine, without blemish, spotless.
There has only ever been one that was always without blemish and spotless --- Christ.
It is the newness (kainos) of Christ that is imputed to us.
We did not clean ourselves up before we could be saved, for Christ saved us WHILE we were sinners.
And it is that salvation by grace that saved us and imputed the kainos of Christ to us.
What is even more amazing is that the verb tenses denote a perpetual condition, meaning that once you have been imputed the pristine righteousness of Christ, you remain forever in that condition. It never changes.
And it has nothing to do with any self righteousness you thought you had accumulated.

A justified soul will live a sanctified life of repentance and faithful holiness; confessing and exhibiting the moral and holy standards of their Holy Savior who raised them from death, and gave them spiritual life.
 

marhig

Well-known member
I can see that.
No problem for me.
I won't bother you with my perspective anymore.
I'm going to rely on the righteousness of Christ.
His grace is sufficient for me.
If his grace is sufficient for you, you'll be living your life according to the will of God and you'll be overcoming the flesh as the spirit guides you and gives you strength. As clefty said, Gods true people will be known by their fruits. If you're born of God, then you'll have the fruits of the spirit.
 
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themuzicman

Well-known member
Jesus had no need to address the issue of homosexuality since he is not judging the world.

Homosexuality in the church precludes a person from the kingdom because of fornication.

There is no particular sin that precludes one from being in the church. But being in the church should direct one away from sin.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
There is no particular sin that precludes one from being in the church. But being in the church should direct one away from sin.

Any sin whatsoever causes a person to be estranged from Christ and our Father.

Paul explained that Christ's job is to present the church to Himself as a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Sin is a blemish and is not acceptable.

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

Sin is not acceptable.
 

themuzicman

Well-known member
Any sin whatsoever causes a person to be estranged from Christ and our Father.

Paul explained that Christ's job is to present the church to Himself as a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Sin is a blemish and is not acceptable.

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

Sin is not acceptable.

Again, sin does not cause us to lose our salvation. Yes, we need to confess and ask forgiveness, but this is not the basis of our salvation. If sin caused us to lose our salvation, then it would ultimately require Christ to be crucified again, so that we might return (c.f. Hebrews 6), and no such return would be possible.

The only condition of salvation in Scripture is faith (See Col 1:23, John 6:40, etc.) Again, scripture never declares that sin causes a loss of salvation.
 

themuzicman

Well-known member
Exactly, and to stay free of sin we must not sin.

Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[g] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.

Does that say "stay free of sin", or does that say, "continue in your faith, established and firm"?
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
The only thing you said right there is, the wages of sin is death. And so it is. We can't carry on sinning and committing vile acts once we know the living God. Because he will turn us over to a reprobate mind and we will be dead to him again, back in darkness away from God.

Scriptures on this, which sin will lose a persons a salvation, after they have been saved? The first, 10th, 20th, etc..
?

Romans 7:16 And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good. 17 In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.…
19 For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20 And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.21 So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s Law. 23 But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin 25 Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Leviticus 20:10
"'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.


He did break the law. Law is to stone adulterers, this is not what He did.
The interpretation then would be to understand that the reason He didn't actually break the law is because that was no longer Law under His covenant.

See the verse you quoted yourself, as you believe that Christ broke the law for not stoning her and show me where in the passage it shows where the man was brought before Him as well to be stoned along with the woman, thanks.

This is how they tried to "trap" Christ here, by not following the entire law, and asking Him to break the law, when the law required the man to be stoned also and he was not brought, even though "she was caught in the very act" as in the man would have been there too when being caught, no? Yet he was not charged or brought to be judged by Christ.

I never said Jesus "sinned," I aware Jesus cannot sin or He could not fulfill messianic prophecy.

If you were aware, then you need to also be aware that He followed the law completely even where the adulterous woman was concerned, failing in no point.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
I do not read that in the context of Leviticus 20:10

Are you reading something I'm not seeing?

"'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Commit is not convict, I would know, I've commit many crimes in my life but only convicted of one.
:chuckle:
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Well you tell that to Tambora, because according to her, no sin that we do can turn us from God once were saved.

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Why do you not believe these?
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
I'm going by what has been written on this thread, that even if we carry on sinning we are ok, and no matter what sin we do it doesn't matter we are still saved. Sorry, but I don't agree with that.

Then you commit no sin ever?

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Is this verse a lie?
 
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