From chat: On Jesus and Homosexuality
- Thread starter Angel4Truth
- Start date
Yes.
I believe in grace (unmerited favor).
I believe in Once Saved Always Saved, because you cannot be given ETERNAL life and then have ETERNAL life taken away (if it can be taken away then it is not ETERNAL).
Galatians 2:16-17 KJV
(16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
(16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
You are justifies by the faith of Christ.
It is HIS righteousness that saves, not your righteousness.
HE is the one.
Romans 5:18 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
If you are relying on the righteousness of yourself, you are relying on the wrong one.
marhig
Well-known member
So let me ask you this, what about the person who carries on molesting children, are they saved even if they carry in with the act?
Huckleberry
New member
I think homosexuals are made by the same process in which heterosexuals are made.
I don't. Surely there are some so perverse that they embrace homosexual behavior but I doubt the vast, vast majority of homosexuals consciously, willfully chose to be homosexual. (Edit: But, take a closer look and ask yourself if homosexuals today are facing "terrific prejudice" or are, instead, loudly praised and glorified.)
No. Interestingly, though, behavior tends to effect the structure of our brains, and science is even now learning to identify behaviors by examining brain structure. Likewise, the opposite is also true, in that brain structure can sort of predict behavior. Kind of vicious circle, I suppose.
So, yeah. It's probably possible to have a homosexual brain. I still hold that it's much more something developed than inherent.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
why do you suppose people would be pedophiles and face terrific prejudice from straight society?
why do you suppose people would be murderers and face terrific prejudice from straight society?
why do you suppose people would be criminals and face terrific prejudice from straight society?
why do you suppose people would be rapists and face terrific prejudice from straight society?
:think:
maybe because people make really really bad choices sometimes?
lilstu said:
yes
the medical term is liberum arbitrium
In context of salvation, not civil law.
In context of our Civil Law, homos are not to be condemned for homosexual as rapists are condemned.
If you are allowed to take the civil law path with marriage and divorce, then the homos should be allowed to take the civil law path.
Otherwise, you have a double standard concerning civil law over GOD's law.
You seem to be condemning the homos for taking advantage of the civil law path, but had no problem taking advantage of taking the civil law path for marriage and divorce.
So, if you want to talk strictly about civil law (and not GOD's law), then you are left with nothing except that homos are not to be condemned per our civil law.
And if you want to talk about GOD's law, then you are going to have to be consistent with both homosexuality and marriage.
We already know you are not consistent with that.
marhig
Well-known member
Tambora, I have some verses for you too
1 Corinthians 6
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 1
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind,to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them
Matthew 7
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
our flawed civil law, as it exists now, that allows all sorts of perversions
my question to you is not whether our current perverted law means that homos should be punished, but whether a just civil law would require punishment for homosexual acts
tam said:
really?
i've been dating?
or were you referring to something else?
in what way do you think i was "taking advantage of taking the civil law path for marriage and divorce"?
You can put any sin to fill in the blank.
The conclusion is the same.
It's not by your righteousness, but by the righteousness of Christ alone.
In society, we demand that all behave (doesn't matter if they are Christian or not).
That's just the rules of society for everyone.
In society you have different degrees of sin and punishment.
Concerning salvation, the wage for any and all sin is death.
Christ did not die to make bad men better.
Christ died so dead men could live.
It's not a matter of going from bad to better.
It's a matter of going from death to life.
If you choose to rely on your own righteousness, then you will be judged by it.
And you will be found guilty because you are guilty.
If you choose to rely on the righteousness of Christ, you will be judged by the righteousness of Christ.
And you will be found innocent because He is innocent.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
marhig
Well-known member
Quote: You can put any sin in and fill the blank, the conclusion is the same
What???? I'm afraid you're very wrong, we are to repent, and to repent means to turn from that sin, not that we can carry on sinning and we're going to heaven regardless, all because Jesus died for us whilst we are sinners. What kind of teaching is that?
No, we don't carry on with the sin, any person committing acts such as child molestation, gay sex etc wont inherit the kingdom of God whilst that are still committing the act and they certainly aren't saved, nor are they saved whilst they carried on sinning like that, you'll know those who are being saved by their fruits and they won't be committing vile acts!
The way you believe is deeply flawed, you need to go back and read the Bible again, God wants us to turn from sin once we know him
The only thing you said right there is, the wages of sin is death. And so it is. We can't carry on sinning and committing vile acts once we know the living God. Because he will turn us over to a reprobate mind and we will be dead to him again, back in darkness away from God.
By the way, if your not going from bad to better through Christ, then you're not saved and you don't have the holy spirit. If we have the holy spirit in our heart, then we should be overcoming sin and our heart should be being cleansed. And if not and you're still living by the lusts of your flesh, then you'll still be dead with no life in you!
Yep, even to allow those that admit they were no longer married in the eyes of GOD, but choose to take the civil law path and say they are married.
GOD says not married.
Civil Law says married.
Hmmm, which one do I want to use for a defense today?
We know which one you chose for years and years and years ---- the civil law.
But those darn homos shouldn't be allowed to use a civil law defense because that means they are going against GOD!!!!!!!! (Never mind that I was doing the same thing. Just look at them, not me.)
And if you think the civil law is not upholding GOD's law, then step up and do GOD's will no matter what civil law says.
Pick your path and get with it.
Path of civil law --- no homos or adulterers are to be condemned.
Path of GOD's law --- get your rock bucket filled up and start throwing!
Start with your wife.
That is not the definition of repent.
GOD repented. (Genesis 6:6 and Exodus 32:14)
Obviously, "repent" does not mean "stopped sinning".
"Repent" means to change one's mind.
For example: Repent (change your mind) that your righteousness saves, to the righteousness of Christ saves.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
you're talking about me, right?
my marriage ended when my wife chose to commit adultery
i am still married, as far as civil law is concerned
yep
until our divorce is finalized, yes
which one do you want?
God only knows what weird notions rattle around in that cobweb filled mess you call a mind :idunno:
i sure don't
tam - according to the law, my wife and i are separated
according to God's law, my marriage is over
i understand that you struggle mightily with this concept and I pray that God gives you the ability to master that struggle
can you quote where I've said that?
of course they're going against God
any Christian that doesn't have cotton between their ears knows that
see "praying that God..." above
ima come back to this - almost done for the night
tomorrow, i'll start a thread and let you tell me exactly what I could say to satisfy you on this point
as a corollary, i'd like you to consider whether one must be free of hypocrisy (as you are convinced I am not) to be able to recognize evil in others
we've derailed angel's thread enough for now
get a good night's rest and may God grant you peace :wave:
marhig
Well-known member
So to change ones mind doesn't mean to turn from the sins we're are committing?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
she gets on these rants where she's just not very coherent
it usually passes (although she's had this bug stuck in her head about my marriage for an awful long time now)
marhig
Well-known member
I'm just totally shocked how anyone can believe that we can carry on sinning and be committing vile acts and believe that not only are we reconciled to God whilst we are doing them, but that we are saved and going to heaven whilst carrying on with the act???
What kind of teaching is that? I've never heard of anything like it! It's not of God that's for sure!
Nang
TOL Subscriber
It is "Antinomianism."
The belief that professed believers in God and salvation by His grace, are exempt from living in accord with His Holy standards and commands (Law).
marhig
Well-known member
I went to our house meeting tonight, and we read Jeremiah 4, and in that chapter, Jeremiah pleaded for the people.
And then I thought about Abraham, and this thread came to my mind. And I thought Abraham's heart was right and he wanted to go into sodom, regardless of what they were doing and bring as many out as possible. He pleaded with God, and went from saying he wanted to try and save 50 right down to even if he just for 10. And I thought how God was willing for this to happen regardless of what they were doing. But, they had to come out from among them to be saved, if not they were destroyed. And only lot and his family listened and we're saved.
What I mean is, we should have the heart where we will be willing to go to anyone to try to bring them to God, whatever they are doing, but we're not to join in, or tell them it's ok for them carry on, we go in with the truth, with the hope of bringing them out of that and by the grace of God they are saved through faith and then turning away from that sin. I believe that this is the heart Jesus had, and if he is in our hearts, then we will feel the same way for others as he does, and we will want to help many people a possible. And with God, all things are possible, so I have hope for everyone.
But, if they don't listen and truly repent of their sins, then they will be consumed and destroyed by the lusts of their flesh and God will be far from them. And I believe that goes for myself also, if I turn away and go after my own lusts rather than put God first then I believe that God will turn away from me too.
My hope is that all listen to the word of God, and that all obey him and repent and turn from their sins, having faith in God and be saved by his grace.
Gods people are not here to judge after the flesh, the word that they speak and the life they live judges, just like when Jonah spoke to the ninevites, it wasn't Jonah that brought them to repentance, but the word it God in him. And Jesus both spoke the word and lived it out and as he did this, he not only saved many, but judged others by the word and his life too. He came to save as many as he could, and I believe that we should have that same heart, many would never have seen the thief as saved, but he was. So we can't judge after the flesh. God judges the heart and we just bring his word through Christ and he will judge.
It's his righteousness based on our willingness to demonstrate his righteousness in our life through repentance.
1 John 3:7 NET Little children, let no one deceive you, the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Jesus is righteous.