From chat: On Jesus and Homosexuality

[clefty]

Hello clefty

You're assumption is misconstrued, since my former commentary holds. I am well aware that Jesus loves us, and by that same love, we love one another. All expressions of affection and communion shared in the context of this love are love-sanctioned. Love is the fulfilling of the law, being the fundamental LAW. In love there is no sin....only fullness, completeness.

In Christ there is no male nor female. Love in Spirit transcends gender, yet includes all gender expressions, forms and identities. 'God' is all in all. You appear to be hung up on particular 'sex acts' themselves, which you have an aversion towards. I speak of love itself and expressions of affection within that context.

Also as shared earlier,...the same-sex acts prohibited in the OT were those performed in the worship of other gods (temple shrine sex), so it was in this context of 'idolatry' that such acts were condemned, since the worship of Yahweh did not include or sanction such acts, the Jewish temple-worship having its own rites and rituals. 'Context' is key

Shrine Prostitutes - Is THAT what Moses was talking about in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13?

Oh my...so as long as one means it when they say "I love my " mom, minor child, or animal and perform the acts of this love but not in the context of "idolatry"...it's ok?...



engaging the sexual act (which itself is sacred) without the two becoming biologically one...is EXACTLY
Idolatry...

Just as a man bows to an image is as fruitless as if he bowed for another man...

 

[ok doser]

tam demonstrates how to say something really silly

You have concluded that the homo must stop his sin to be saved.

good one! :first:





my turn next! :banana:

 

[Tambora]

I disagree completely that its what she said.

He knows it.
Let him play.
That's what he does best.

 

[Tambora]

tam demonstrates how to say something really silly



good one! :first:





my turn next! :banana:

Try this one on for size.

Romans 5:8-10 KJV
(8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
(10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



Now why didn't they have to get all cleaned up and stop sinning before they were saved?
Oh yeah, grace (unmerited favor).

 

[ok doser]

tam - i'm not talking about salvation, i'm not talking about grace


i'm talking about civil control of perverted behaviors, like child molestation and rape


if you're interested in talking about that, fine

if not, we're talking at cross purposes for no good reason

 

[Tambora]

by the civil authorities?

Civil authorities here in the States don't punish homosexuality.
Step up and get busy doing it yourself.
What's your holdup????

 

[ok doser]

Civil authorities here in the States don't punish homosexuality.

do you think they should?

Step up and get busy doing it yourself.

i do

 

[Angel4Truth]

If you choose to look on a woman with lust in your heart, should you be punished?

Matthew 5:27 You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I disagree completely that its what she said.

by the civil authorities?

no


now it's your turn:

if i chose to molest children, should i be punished?

I will be more than happy to answer your question, after you answer the one i asked first. So no, its not yet my turn since you havent yet responded to my post i made before you made this one.

Here it is again, so you have no trouble finding it:

If you choose to look on a woman with lust in your heart, should you be punished?

Matthew 5:27 You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

[ok doser]

If you choose to look on a woman with lust in your heart, should you be punished?

i answered it

no, i should not be punished by the civil authorities for choosing to look on a woman with lust in my heart

 

[Angel4Truth]

i answered it

no, i should not be punished by the civil authorities for choosing to look on a woman with lust in my heart

Why not, you believe an adulterer should be executed by the civil authorities, and Jesus said looking on a woman lustfully, is already committing it. Was He lying about it, or do you merit special favor because you didn't do it in the flesh but in your heart instead?

 

[Angel4Truth]

according to tam we shouldn't have any laws, because grace

tam - i'm not talking about salvation, i'm not talking about grace


i'm talking about civil control of perverted behaviors, like child molestation and rape


if you're interested in talking about that, fine

if not, we're talking at cross purposes for no good reason

:think: hmm moving the goalposts now?

 

[ok doser]

Why not

good question

what do you think?

should i be punished by the civil authorities for looking on a woman with lust on my heart?

, you believe an adulterer should be executed by the civil authorities,

yes, i do

and Jesus said looking on a woman lustfully, is already committing it.

and did he say it in the context of civil law, or in the context of salvation?

do you understand that they serve two different purposes?

 

[ok doser]

:think: hmm moving the goalposts now?

by noting that tam and i are talking about two differnt things? :freak:


ummmmmm

no

 

[ok doser]

:think:

might be a good thread for another day - the difference between Salvific Law and Civil Law

 

[Angel4Truth]

good question

what do you think?

should i be punished by the civil authorities for looking on a woman with lust on my heart?



yes, i do



and did he say it in the context of civil law, or in the context of salvation?

do you understand that they serve two different purposes?

yes, and when He said that, the cross had not yet happened and He was explaining the intent instead of the letter to those like you right here.

You want the letter for others but not for yourself.

You agreed you believe an adulterer should be executed by the civil authorities, and Jesus declared you guilty too but you dont think you should be judged the same.

So, is His favor merited or not?

 

[Tambora]

tam - i'm not talking about salvation, i'm not talking about grace

Are you sure?
Did you not claim that one's flesh body actually needed to stop all sinning BEFORE they could be saved?
Or do you now admit that no one has to stop sinning before they can be saved?

i'm talking about civil control of perverted behaviors, like child molestation and rape

and adulterers.
Did you punish your wife's crime by putting her to death?
Who are you waiting on?

And who is "civil control"?
Our court judges, but not you?
Should you punish homos?
Just wondering how you plan to carry out the punishment of those that sin.
Is sitting at a computer and complaining about it punishment in your little feeble mind?
If so, consider their punished a done deal.

 

[ok doser]

yes, and when He said that, the cross had not yet happened and He was explaining the intent instead of the letter to those like you right here.

You want the letter for others but not for yourself.

You agreed you believe an adulterer should be executed by the civil authorities, and Jesus declared you guilty too but you dont think you should be judged the same.

So, is His favor merited or not?

i'll accept what you've written for the moment (and may come back to it later)



answer me this - how should civil law handle rapists, murderers, child molesters, adulterers, homosexuals?


should civil law be abolished because grace?



gotta go :wave2:

 

[ok doser]

Did you not claim that one's flesh body actually needed to stop all sinning BEFORE they could be saved?

cite?

 

[Angel4Truth]

i'll accept what you've written for the moment (and may come back to it later)



answer me this - how should civil law handle rapists, murderers, child molesters, adulterers, homosexuals?


should civil law be abolished because grace?



gotta go :wave2:

Ill let you know when you come back

 

[Angel4Truth]

and adulterers.

Did you punish your wife's crime by putting her to death?

Who are you waiting on?

And who is "civil control"?

Our court judges, but not you?

Should you punish homos?

Just wondering how you plan to carry out the punishment of those that sin.

opcorn: