Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

[StanJ]

THE TRINITY
1. There is an Undeniable "Threeness" in Scripture

Undeniably for those who submit to the Holy Spirit and God's word, but those who don't will not admit to this list.
Those in the state of apostasism have already turned away what they know is truth to what they have accepted is truth. The Bible tells us it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to renew themselves.

 

[keypurr]

THE TRINITY
1. There is an Undeniable "Threeness" in Scripture
Mt 3:16-17; 28:19; 2 Cor 13:14; 1 Pet 1:2; Eph 2:18; 3:14-17; 1 Th 1:3-5; Rev 4:8; Rom 15:16; Heb 9:14; Jude 20,21; Isa 48:16; 2 Th 2:13-14; John 15:26.
Is the work of our salvation at the cross a work of man or a work of God?


2. The Three Are Inseparable in Some Ways
Mt 28:19; John 10:27-30; 12:44-46,49-50; 14:9-11; 15:26; 16:13-15; 17:10; Rom 8:9-11; 1 Cor 2:11-12. The Father & Jesus share at least 25 names and titles (Lord of Lords Rev 17:14; Dt 10:17, Alpha & Omega Rev 1:8;17-18). How often have you said the end of 1 Cor 12:3?

3. The Three Are Distinct in Some Ways
Mt 3:16-17; Lk 3:21-22; Jn 1:1;6:38;14:31;15:26;16:28;17:5; Acts 5:31-32; Heb 5:7-8. Heaven was not empty when Jesus came to earth. The Three communicated when Jesus was baptized.

4. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God
1 Pt 1:2,3; Jn5:18;8:54Heb 1:8-9; Rev 1:8; 22:12-16 Rom 8:9-16; 1 Cor 12:6,11
Ep 1:2-3,17;3:14;5:2 John 1:1,18; 20:28; Luke 1:35; 1 Cor 2:10-11
1Th1:1,3;3:11;Phm 3 Hosea 1:7, Is 7:14 1 John 4:12,13,15-16; Jn 14:16,26
2Th1:1; 2:16; Ga1:1,31 John 5:11,12, vs. 21 1 Cor 3:16 vs. 1 Cor 6:19
Titus 1:4; 1Cor1:3;8:6Col 2:9 & Mt 1:23 Acts 5:3-4; Job 33:4; Ps 139:7-1
Ep3:11;Jn17:5 (eternal)Heb 7:3; 13:8 (eternal) Heb 9:14 (eternal)

In some verses idols are referred to as gods, (Gen 31:30,3; 1 Cor 8:5) and in two places men are referred to as "gods" (Ps 82:6-7; Jn 10:34-36). "God" here though is defined as:

1) One whom we and all the world are created through.
2) Rightfully worshipped by angels and men.
3) Rightfully given praise and devotion by men.
4) Rightfully called our Lord and our God.
By the above definitions, Christ is God according to the following scripture.

1) Jn 1:3; Col 1:16-17 (other in Jehovah's Witness New World Trans. is their own addition)
2) Heb 1:6,9 (proskuneo in Greek), Rev 5:8-9, John 9:38
3) 2 Cor 11:3
4) John 20:28-29; Heb 1:8-9; Rev 22:20; Php 2:11 (Lord).
If you refuse to recognize Jesus in these four ways, there is no need to continue until you decide to repent and obey the Bible.

God’s people in the Bible boast of and give glory to Jesus Christ. Do You?
Gal 6:14, 1 Cor 1:23,30,31, 1 Cor 2:2, John 1:14, Php 2:10-11, 2 Peter 3:18.
How many times have you boasted of what Paul boasted of in Gal 6:14?

5. There is only One God, Not Three Separate Ones
Dt 4:35-9;6:4; Mk 12:29-33; Isa 43:10-2;44:6,8;45:5-6,14,21;46:9; Joe2:27;1Tm1:17;2:5;6:15-6

6. They are Co-equal in a Similar Way as a Father and Son Are Co-equal
John 5:18; 5:23; Col 2:9-10; (Is 44:6; Rev 1:8 vs. Rev 1:17-18; 22:13)
As John 5:18 shows, a father is equal in nature to the son he begets. Otherwise, your father must be greater than you, your grandfather greater than him, and your 100th ancestor must have been one super guy. People make things but "beget" only people. God made created things but "begets" only God, his only begotten Son. Shouldn't church worship be modeled after heavenly worship? If you have never sung or given glory to God and the Lamb, prayerfully read Rev 5:9,12-14.

Is this all you got?

 

[JFish123]

Is this all you got?

More? Ok...
The pagans believed in a Triad of gods. They were polytheists. That means they believed in three main gods (Triad) who were completely separate beings. And they ruled over the rest of the gods.
The Trinity is 1 God with three persons-The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that are equal in essence and nature as One God. And they rule over No other gods as there's only one God. Unlike JW where there are at least two (The God and a god) so the Trinity has less gods then The Watchtower. We have One-The Trinity. And the Bible clearly states in the Trinity, so it's not from "outside pagan religions."
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded by addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes of deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All three have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) each is called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8) and each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can any one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
They were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.
Also to mention, that the pagans taught the concept of a flood that killed most of humankind and the concept of a messiah like figure named Tammuz who was allegedly resurrected. Are those concepts false just because pagans taught remotely similar accounts?
And if you still don't understand the Trinity, does it mean it's not True? I mean do you think it is possible for human beings to know everything about God? If yes, please explain Isaiah 55:8-9, Romans 11:33, and 1 Corinthians 13:12.
We should not reject a doctrine simply because we cannot fully comprehend it. Especially since it's in the Bible

 

[keypurr]

JFISH we need a month to go over your lister verses. It would be better to go one at a time to read them. But when I have a day with nothing else to do, I wii look at them. I did not mean to hurt your feelings as you are sincere in your thoughts. Forgive me if I did.

 

[JFish123]

JFISH we need a month to go over your lister verses. It would be better to go one at a time to read them. But when I have a day with nothing else to do, I wii look at them. I did not mean to hurt your feelings as you are sincere in your thoughts. Forgive me if I did.

No you didn't just sharing scripture lol

 

[keypurr]

No you didn't just sharing scripture lol

I have seen most of it over the years friend as I was Trin for many years. But, like cream in a milk bottle, truth rises to the top. I think the fault of all the differences in Christian religions the Greek. I question if the Greek has distorted the meaning intended by the originals. It seems there is a lack of Greek words to really translate without questionable conflict.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

 

[IMJerusha]

I have seen most of it over the years friend as I was Trin for many years. But, like cream in a milk bottle, truth rises to the top. I think the fault of all the differences in Christian religions the Greek. I question if the Greek has distorted the meaning intended by the originals. It seems there is a lack of Greek words to really translate without questionable conflict.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

You wouldn't be the first person to question Hellenistic influences on the faith of Yeshua!

 

[keypurr]

You wouldn't be the first person to question Hellenistic influences on the faith of Yeshua!

True, but I am seeing it more now.

 

[JFish123]

THREE MORE REASONS JESUS IS GOD

Reason #1: Jesus declared Himself God, "I AM."
Jesus, in response to the Pharisees’ question “Who do you think you are?” said, “‘Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds” (John 8:56–59). The violent response of the Jews to Jesus’ “I AM” statement indicates they clearly understood what He was declaring—that He was the eternal God incarnate. Jesus was equating Himself with the "I AM" title God gave Himself in Exodus 3:14.

If Jesus had merely wanted to say He existed before Abraham’s time, He would have said, “Before Abraham, I was.” The Greek words translated “was,” in the case of Abraham, and “am,” in the case of Jesus, are quite different. The words chosen by the Spirit make it clear that Abraham was “brought into being,” but Jesus existed eternally (see John 1:1). There is no doubt that the Jews understood what He was saying because they took up stones to kill Him for making Himself equal with God (John 5:18). Such a statement, if not true, was blasphemy and the punishment prescribed by the Mosaic Law was death (Leviticus 24:11–14). But Jesus committed no blasphemy; He was and is God, the second Person of the Godhead, equal to the Father in every way.

Jesus used the same phrase “I AM” in seven declarations about Himself. In all seven, He combines I AM with tremendous metaphors which express His saving relationship toward the world. All appear in the book of John. They are: I AM the Bread of Life (John 6:35, 41, 48, 51); I AM the Light of the World (John 8:12); I AM the Door of the Sheep (John 10:7, 9); I AM the Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14); I AM the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25); I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6); and I AM the True Vine (John 15:1, 5).

REASON #2: Thomas calls Jesus “Lord and God” in Jn 20:28, in the Greek its κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου (my) or basically “my Lord and my God.” Some people try to make explanations to avoid it, such as Thomas spoke of two separate entities, Jesus as an earthly Lord, and God as the heavenly father that was up in the sky.
However that explanation fails as Thomas said to HIM, not to THEM, Jesus is “my Lord and my God.” Col. 2:9 is very clear, the fullness of deity or God-hood/God-ness dwells in Jesus. While we have Gods spirit living in us, WE cannot say the fullness of deity dwells in us. God lives in us, but his divine nature is not a part of us; Jesus on the other hand had the fullness of Gods divine nature in his body. That is the difference. Also see Heb 1:3.

REASON #3: The Granville Sharp Rule
Paul calls Jesus “God and Savior” in Titus 2:13. According to Granville Sharps Rule #1 (a rule used in interpreting Greek texts) “When the copulative kai (“and”) connects two personal nouns (“God,” “Savior”) which are singular and not proper nouns (such as names) both nouns refer to the first-named person.” Basically in case someone tries to say that this refers to two separate entities, the Greek grammar does not work that way. These two nouns (God/Savior) can only refer to one entity, Jesus. This rule is exceptionless. One must argue solely on theological grounds against these passages. There is truly no real grammatical objection that can be raised.
https://youtu.be/Wj6Ba7xci4Y

 

[oatmeal]

Then I suggest you read Rom 10:9-13 (NIV) CAREFULLY. The demons believe in Jesus Christ as James states in 2:19

And note that there is no mention of a trinity let alone a requirement to believe in a trinity.

 

[oatmeal]

THE TRINITY
1. There is an Undeniable "Threeness" in Scripture
Mt 3:16-17; 28:19; 2 Cor 13:14; 1 Pet 1:2; Eph 2:18; 3:14-17; 1 Th 1:3-5; Rev 4:8; Rom 15:16; Heb 9:14; Jude 20,21; Isa 48:16; 2 Th 2:13-14; John 15:26.
Is the work of our salvation at the cross a work of man or a work of God?


2. The Three Are Inseparable in Some Ways
Mt 28:19; John 10:27-30; 12:44-46,49-50; 14:9-11; 15:26; 16:13-15; 17:10; Rom 8:9-11; 1 Cor 2:11-12. The Father & Jesus share at least 25 names and titles (Lord of Lords Rev 17:14; Dt 10:17, Alpha & Omega Rev 1:8;17-18). How often have you said the end of 1 Cor 12:3?

3. The Three Are Distinct in Some Ways
Mt 3:16-17; Lk 3:21-22; Jn 1:1;6:38;14:31;15:26;16:28;17:5; Acts 5:31-32; Heb 5:7-8. Heaven was not empty when Jesus came to earth. The Three communicated when Jesus was baptized.

4. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God
1 Pt 1:2,3; Jn5:18;8:54Heb 1:8-9; Rev 1:8; 22:12-16 Rom 8:9-16; 1 Cor 12:6,11
Ep 1:2-3,17;3:14;5:2 John 1:1,18; 20:28; Luke 1:35; 1 Cor 2:10-11
1Th1:1,3;3:11;Phm 3 Hosea 1:7, Is 7:14 1 John 4:12,13,15-16; Jn 14:16,26
2Th1:1; 2:16; Ga1:1,31 John 5:11,12, vs. 21 1 Cor 3:16 vs. 1 Cor 6:19
Titus 1:4; 1Cor1:3;8:6Col 2:9 & Mt 1:23 Acts 5:3-4; Job 33:4; Ps 139:7-1
Ep3:11;Jn17:5 (eternal)Heb 7:3; 13:8 (eternal) Heb 9:14 (eternal)

In some verses idols are referred to as gods, (Gen 31:30,3; 1 Cor 8:5) and in two places men are referred to as "gods" (Ps 82:6-7; Jn 10:34-36). "God" here though is defined as:

1) One whom we and all the world are created through.
2) Rightfully worshipped by angels and men.
3) Rightfully given praise and devotion by men.
4) Rightfully called our Lord and our God.
By the above definitions, Christ is God according to the following scripture.

1) Jn 1:3; Col 1:16-17 (other in Jehovah's Witness New World Trans. is their own addition)
2) Heb 1:6,9 (proskuneo in Greek), Rev 5:8-9, John 9:38
3) 2 Cor 11:3
4) John 20:28-29; Heb 1:8-9; Rev 22:20; Php 2:11 (Lord).
If you refuse to recognize Jesus in these four ways, there is no need to continue until you decide to repent and obey the Bible.

God’s people in the Bible boast of and give glory to Jesus Christ. Do You?
Gal 6:14, 1 Cor 1:23,30,31, 1 Cor 2:2, John 1:14, Php 2:10-11, 2 Peter 3:18.
How many times have you boasted of what Paul boasted of in Gal 6:14?

5. There is only One God, Not Three Separate Ones
Dt 4:35-9;6:4; Mk 12:29-33; Isa 43:10-2;44:6,8;45:5-6,14,21;46:9; Joe2:27;1Tm1:17;2:5;6:15-6

6. They are Co-equal in a Similar Way as a Father and Son Are Co-equal
John 5:18; 5:23; Col 2:9-10; (Is 44:6; Rev 1:8 vs. Rev 1:17-18; 22:13)
As John 5:18 shows, a father is equal in nature to the son he begets. Otherwise, your father must be greater than you, your grandfather greater than him, and your 100th ancestor must have been one super guy. People make things but "beget" only people. God made created things but "begets" only God, his only begotten Son. Shouldn't church worship be modeled after heavenly worship? If you have never sung or given glory to God and the Lamb, prayerfully read Rev 5:9,12-14.

A threeenesss in scripture proves what?

Matthew 17:1

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Mark 5:37

And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.

Job 1:6

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

I Thessalonians 5:23 body and soul and spirit

Look how many times three shows up in scripture! They must all be trinities!!!!

They are inseparable? in some ways?

John 10:27-30

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

Look another three, sheep, Jesus Christ, and the Father.

Where is the Holy Spirit?

And what is that any man doing in there? That's four!

And, oh, look, the Father is greater than all!!!

Greater than the sheep, greater than that any man, greater than Jesus Christ.

Oops, there goes your trinitarian "co-equal" definition.

Oh, look, Jesus and the Father are one! if your theology is correct, then there is no twoness there, let alone a threeness!

If you still want to force a threeenesss, you have sheep, any man and the two who are one!

Oh, where is the Holy Spirit in this mix? Where is the Holy Spirit in this threeenesss?

John 5:30

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Their wills were separate, Jesus had his will, the Father has His will which is different than the son's will. Had their wills been the same, the son of God would have done his own will the same work would have been accomplished.

Jesus was powerless without God, even as we are powerless without God.

Do you even read your verses? Let alone think about what they say?

They are distinct in some ways?

That proves what? that they are distinct. Not one.

Job 1:6 Satan and God are distinct, does that prove that Satan and God are part of a trinity?

You trins are so desperate to hang onto the traditions of men.

 

[JFish123]

A threeenesss in scripture proves what?



Matthew 17:1



And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,



Mark 5:37



And he suffered no man to follow him, save Peter, and James, and John the brother of James.



Job 1:6



Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.



I Thessalonians 5:23 body and soul and spirit



Look how many times three shows up in scripture! They must all be trinities!!!!



They are inseparable? in some ways?



John 10:27-30



My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:



28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.



29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.



30 I and my Father are one.



Look another three, sheep, Jesus Christ, and the Father.



Where is the Holy Spirit?



And what is that any man doing in there? That's four!



And, oh, look, the Father is greater than all!!!



Greater than the sheep, greater than that any man, greater than Jesus Christ.



Oops, there goes your trinitarian "co-equal" definition.



Oh, look, Jesus and the Father are one! if your theology is correct, then there is no twoness there, let alone a threeness!



If you still want to force a threeenesss, you have sheep, any man and the two who are one!



Oh, where is the Holy Spirit in this mix? Where is the Holy Spirit in this threeenesss?



John 5:30



I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.



Their wills were separate, Jesus had his will, the Father has His will which is different than the son's will. Had their wills been the same, the son of God would have done his own will the same work would have been accomplished.



Jesus was powerless without God, even as we are powerless without God.



Do you even read your verses? Let alone think about what they say?



They are distinct in some ways?



That proves what? that they are distinct. Not one.



Job 1:6 Satan and God are distinct, does that prove that Satan and God are part of a trinity?



You trins are so desperate to hang onto the traditions of men.

Is a sheep called God in Scripture? Does a sheep have the attributes of God? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are and do.
Also, they are co-equal in nature and essence, not position, as Jesus was both God AND man.

Jesus said that the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God but because Jesus was also a man, and as a man, he was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . . ," (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."

Jesus has two natures: divine and human. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father because He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9) and was made under the Law (Gal. 4:4). He became a man to die for people (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

A comparison of difference of position can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. He is her head (Eph. 5:23), but, he is no different in nature, and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love and commitment to the Lord.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man, and as a man, He was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law, namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).
https://youtu.be/Wj6Ba7xci4Y

 

[achduke]

Is a sheep called God in Scripture?

Psalms 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.

 

[oatmeal]

Is a sheep called God in Scripture? Does a sheep have the attributes of God? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are and do.
Also, they are co-equal in nature and essence, not position, as Jesus was both God AND man.

Jesus said that the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God but because Jesus was also a man, and as a man, he was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . . ," (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."

Jesus has two natures: divine and human. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father because He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9) and was made under the Law (Gal. 4:4). He became a man to die for people (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

A comparison of difference of position can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. He is her head (Eph. 5:23), but, he is no different in nature, and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love and commitment to the Lord.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man, and as a man, He was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law, namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).
https://youtu.be/Wj6Ba7xci4Y

Is a sheep called God in Scripture?

That is not the subject, you are talking about threeenesss.

Does a sheep have the attributes of God?

Who is the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world?

Oops, you did not remember that Jesus is

a. God of God that takes away the sins of the world

b. the lamb who is God that takes away the sins of the world

c. the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world

Is Jesus the lamb of God, or is he God?

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are and do.

And so is Moses Exodus 7:1 KJV and those that Jesus referred to in referring to the OT in John 10:34-35.

That is a lot more than three!!!

Why are they not included in your trinity? Oh, that's right, it would mess up your threeenesss principle. Too bad there are more than three that God refers to as gods in scripture, you will have to ignore those verses from now on.

Also, they are co-equal in nature and essence, not position, as Jesus was both God AND man.

So you will have to ignore Jesus own words from now on:

John 10:29

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 14:28

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Evidently, your pagan doctrine is more important to you than Jesus own testimony of who is greater.

Well, when you are ready to believe scripture, God will welcome you back.

 

[Apple7]

Slice it, dice it any way you want.

Yes.

True Christians are Trinitarian.

 

[Apple7]

And note that there is no mention of a trinity let alone a requirement to believe in a trinity.

Show us the word 'monad' in scripture.

 

[Apple7]

I have seen most of it over the years friend as I was Trin for many years. But, like cream in a milk bottle, truth rises to the top. I think the fault of all the differences in Christian religions the Greek. I question if the Greek has distorted the meaning intended by the originals. It seems there is a lack of Greek words to really translate without questionable conflict.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

What would you know about Greek, pops?

Nothing.

 

[JFish123]

That is not the subject, you are talking about threeenesss.







Who is the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world?



Oops, you did not remember that Jesus is



a. God of God that takes away the sins of the world



b. the lamb who is God that takes away the sins of the world



c. the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world



Is Jesus the lamb of God, or is he God?







And so is Moses Exodus 7:1 KJV and those that Jesus referred to in referring to the OT in John 10:34-35.



That is a lot more than three!!!



Why are they not included in your trinity? Oh, that's right, it would mess up your threeenesss principle. Too bad there are more than three that God refers to as gods in scripture, you will have to ignore those verses from now on.







So you will have to ignore Jesus own words from now on:



John 10:29



My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.



John 14:28



Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.



Evidently, your pagan doctrine is more important to you than Jesus own testimony of who is greater.



Well, when you are ready to believe scripture, God will welcome you back.

Regular Sheep and Jesus, the "lamb of God" are quite different, correct? And regular sheep, was what I was talking about in answering your post

Also, Moses did the works of God but he wasn't God himself unlike Jesus/The Holy Spirit. Paul and the Apostles clearly believed Jesus as God. One clear example is this Fact.

The Granville Sharp Rule
Paul calls Jesus “GOD and Savior” in Titus 2:13. According to Granville Sharps Rule #1 (a rule used in interpreting Greek texts) “When the copulative kai (“and”) connects two personal nouns (“God,” “Savior”) which are singular and not proper nouns (such as names) both nouns refer to the first-named person.” Basically in case someone tries to say that this refers to two separate entities, the Greek grammar does not work that way. These two nouns (God/Savior) can only refer to one entity, Jesus. This rule is exceptionless. One must argue solely on theological grounds against these passages. There is truly no real grammatical objection that can be raised. Therfore he believed As did the rest Jesus was God and wrote that Truth down as such.

 

[Apple7]

Regular Sheep and Jesus, the "lamb of God" are quite different, correct? And regular sheep, was what I was talking about in answering your post

Also, Moses did the works of God but he wasn't God himself unlike Jesus/The Holy Spirit. Paul and the Apostles clearly believed Jesus as God. One clear example is this Fact.

The Granville Sharp Rule
Paul calls Jesus “GOD and Savior” in Titus 2:13. According to Granville Sharps Rule #1 (a rule used in interpreting Greek texts) “When the copulative kai (“and”) connects two personal nouns (“God,” “Savior”) which are singular and not proper nouns (such as names) both nouns refer to the first-named person.” Basically in case someone tries to say that this refers to two separate entities, the Greek grammar does not work that way. These two nouns (God/Savior) can only refer to one entity, Jesus. This rule is exceptionless. One must argue solely on theological grounds against these passages. There is truly no real grammatical objection that can be raised. Therfore he believed As did the rest Jesus was God and wrote that Truth down as such.

Agreed...

We have to remember that Trinity-denier-tards like Oatmeal, Pops, etc, etc, don't care about the original languages at all...zero....they are not critical thinkers...and they become offended when someone is...

 

[oatmeal]

Regular Sheep and Jesus, the "lamb of God" are quite different, correct? And regular sheep, was what I was talking about in answering your post

Also, Moses did the works of God but he wasn't God himself unlike Jesus/The Holy Spirit. Paul and the Apostles clearly believed Jesus as God. One clear example is this Fact.

The Granville Sharp Rule
Paul calls Jesus “GOD and Savior” in Titus 2:13. According to Granville Sharps Rule #1 (a rule used in interpreting Greek texts) “When the copulative kai (“and”) connects two personal nouns (“God,” “Savior”) which are singular and not proper nouns (such as names) both nouns refer to the first-named person.” Basically in case someone tries to say that this refers to two separate entities, the Greek grammar does not work that way. These two nouns (God/Savior) can only refer to one entity, Jesus. This rule is exceptionless. One must argue solely on theological grounds against these passages. There is truly no real grammatical objection that can be raised. Therfore he believed As did the rest Jesus was God and wrote that Truth down as such.

Again, you refuse to read scriptures for what it says.

Exodus 7:1 KJV why do you have such a problem with God's own testimony?

Everyone does, but until people actually believe, the promised results of believing God's word is not forthcoming.

So is Jesus God or the lamb OF God?

You have a tough time answering that? Lamb OF God.

Son OF God.

Jesus is the lamb of God, not God. He is the son of God, not God.

Moses is a god according to God.

If Moses the prophet is a god, and Moses foretold that God would raise up a prophet like unto Moses out of his brethren, who then is that prophet like Moses?

Too bad the Greeks did not know about the "Granville Sharp rule"

Too bad you did not read Titus 1:4 where God and Jesus Christ are distinctively different entities, even as they are in Acts 2:22 and I Timothy 2:5

God is Savior indeed, but what is the Father's business that Jesus must be about? The son is about the Father's business, what is that business? Did the son engage himself in his Father's business?

Does God enlist others to do saving works? Yes, He does.

Nehemiah 9:27 makes that plain.

Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

There were others before Jesus Christ who saved God's people out of the hands of their enemies.

Where is your scriptural proof for your threeeology?

You have nothing but sloppy thinking and guesswork.