Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

[achduke]

Agreed...

We have to remember that Trinity-denier-tards like Oatmeal, Pops, etc, etc, don't care about the original languages at all...zero....they are not critical thinkers...and they become offended when someone is...

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

Ephesians 1:23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

Corinthians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,




Acts 10:38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

 

[Cross Reference]

I am a Trinitarian. BUT, I do not feel competent to judge the non-Trinitarian believers.
God, in infinite mercy and love is taking care of business.

One must be a Christian in the complete sense of the title, in order to understand the Trinity set in the Godhead to understand the ultimate intention God has prepared for those who Love Him and have abandoned their lives to His Headship byJesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit.

 

[JFish123]

Again, you refuse to read scriptures for what it says.

Exodus 7:1 KJV why do you have such a problem with God's own testimony?

Everyone does, but until people actually believe, the promised results of believing God's word is not forthcoming.

So is Jesus God or the lamb OF God?

You have a tough time answering that? Lamb OF God.

Son OF God.

Jesus is the lamb of God, not God. He is the son of God, not God.

Moses is a god according to God.

If Moses the prophet is a god, and Moses foretold that God would raise up a prophet like unto Moses out of his brethren, who then is that prophet like Moses?

Too bad the Greeks did not know about the "Granville Sharp rule"

Too bad you did not read Titus 1:4 where God and Jesus Christ are distinctively different entities, even as they are in Acts 2:22 and I Timothy 2:5

God is Savior indeed, but what is the Father's business that Jesus must be about? The son is about the Father's business, what is that business? Did the son engage himself in his Father's business?

Does God enlist others to do saving works? Yes, He does.

Nehemiah 9:27 makes that plain.

Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

There were others before Jesus Christ who saved God's people out of the hands of their enemies.

Where is your scriptural proof for your threeeology?

You have nothing but sloppy thinking and guesswork.

1. The Lamb of God is a title referring to Jesus as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. Our punishment in hell for sin is eternal. And an eternal punishment needs an eternal sacrifice. Who is eternal that can take away the sins of the world? Jesus The God, who is eternal.

And the notion that the title 'Son of God' indicates inferiority to the Father is based on a faulty conception of the phrase "son of..." Meant among the ancients. Though the term can refer to "offspring of" in some contexts, it also carries the important meaning "of the order of." The phrase is often used that way on the Old Testament.
For example, "sons of the prophets" meant "of the order of the prophets" (1 Kings 20:35). "Sons of the singers" meant "of the order of singers" (Nehemiah 12:28). Likewise, the phrase "Son of God" means "of the order of God," and represents claim to Undiminished Deity.

The ancients used the phrase "son of..." To indicate likeness or sameness of nature and equality of being. Hence, when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, His Jewish contemporaries fully understood that He was making a claim to be God in an unqualified sense.
From the earliest days of Christianity, the phrase "Son of God" was understood to be fully equivalent to God. This is why, when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, the Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God." (John 17:9).
Recognizing that Jesus was identifying Himself as God, the Jews wanted to put Him to death for committing blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16). Also, the "Son of Man," title Jesus constantly refers to Himself as refers to His Divinity as God.

It is as a reference to the prophecy of Daniel 7:13-14, “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
The Son of Man has All authority and ultimate Power, where everyone WORSHIPS Him, with an ETERNAL Kingdom.

2. Yes Jesus was a prophet like Moses, but It didn't LIMIT Jesus to be just that and nothing more. Moses spoke, "Thus says The Lord," while Jesus (in His OWN Authority) said, "Truly, I tell you." Moses asked God to perform miracles. Jesus just made if happen in His OWN authority. Unlike Moses, He didn't pray to God for a miracle when He calmed the storm, or healed the blind, or made the lame walk. Jesus was a prophet unto Moses, but to say that's all He was, is limiting who He actually demonstrated Himself to be.

3. The Greeks didn't need to know about the Granville Sharp Rule as it was invented by them in their own language

4. You say there were others before Jesus who saved Gods people. That Jesus wasn't the only savior.
Tell me, could any of them besides Jesus save us from sin? Could any of them offer themselves up for the sins of the world? Saving a nation like Israel is one thing, and many people in the bible did that. But none could save anyone from sin. ONLY Jesus is THE savior Above All others.

 

[Lighthouse]

You must believe that Jesus is who He said He is.

 

[oatmeal]

1. The Lamb of God is a title referring to Jesus as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. Our punishment in hell for sin is eternal. And an eternal punishment needs an eternal sacrifice. Who is eternal that can take away the sins of the world? Jesus The God, who is eternal.

And the notion that the title 'Son of God' indicates inferiority to the Father is based on a faulty conception of the phrase "son of..." Meant among the ancients. Though the term can refer to "offspring of" in some contexts, it also carries the important meaning "of the order of." The phrase is often used that way on the Old Testament.
For example, "sons of the prophets" meant "of the order of the prophets" (1 Kings 20:35). "Sons of the singers" meant "of the order of singers" (Nehemiah 12:28). Likewise, the phrase "Son of God" means "of the order of God," and represents claim to Undiminished Deity.

The ancients used the phrase "son of..." To indicate likeness or sameness of nature and equality of being. Hence, when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, His Jewish contemporaries fully understood that He was making a claim to be God in an unqualified sense.
From the earliest days of Christianity, the phrase "Son of God" was understood to be fully equivalent to God. This is why, when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, the Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God." (John 17:9).
Recognizing that Jesus was identifying Himself as God, the Jews wanted to put Him to death for committing blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16). Also, the "Son of Man," title Jesus constantly refers to Himself as refers to His Divinity as God.

It is as a reference to the prophecy of Daniel 7:13-14, “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
The Son of Man has All authority and ultimate Power, where everyone WORSHIPS Him, with an ETERNAL Kingdom.

2. Yes Jesus was a prophet like Moses, but It didn't LIMIT Jesus to be just that and nothing more. Moses spoke, "Thus says The Lord," while Jesus (in His OWN Authority) said, "Truly, I tell you." Moses asked God to perform miracles. Jesus just made if happen in His OWN authority. Unlike Moses, He didn't pray to God for a miracle when He calmed the storm, or healed the blind, or made the lame walk. Jesus was a prophet unto Moses, but to say that's all He was, is limiting who He actually demonstrated Himself to be.

3. The Greeks didn't need to know about the Granville Sharp Rule as it was invented by them in their own language

4. You say there were others before Jesus who saved Gods people. That Jesus wasn't the only savior.
Tell me, could any of them besides Jesus save us from sin? Could any of them offer themselves up for the sins of the world? Saving a nation like Israel is one thing, and many people in the bible did that. But none could save anyone from sin. ONLY Jesus is THE savior Above All others.

Hmmm. Oh, look, no scripture, just conjecture and opinion.

1. The Lamb of God is a title referring to Jesus as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. Our punishment in hell for sin is eternal. And an eternal punishment needs an eternal sacrifice. Who is eternal that can take away the sins of the world? Jesus The God, who is eternal.

Well, conjecture and opinion is not scripture, for those of us who believe scripture, your point 1 is useless to us.

Romans 5:15, if you should bother to read scripture tells us differently.

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.

When you decide that scripture is where God gives answers, not in your opinions and conjectures and hypothesis and guesswork, then and only then can we have an scriptural discussion on this matter.

His contemporaries made the same mistake you are, they assumed they understood what he was talking about.

How interesting that you should take the word of Jesus' enemies rather than Jesus' words.

His enemies, you call them contemporaries, wanted to kill him, for what? For declaring that is the son of God?

He is the son of God, not God the Son.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

How interesting you would take up the doctrines of those who were ready to kill him rather than those who believe on the name of the son of God.

You condemn yourselves with your own doctrines, you choose the doctrines of murderers rather than the words of Jesus Christ.

I am still waiting to hear from you on John 10:29 and John 14:28

the Father is greater than the son, that by Jesus' own words, proof again you prefer the words of those who want to murder Jesus rather than believe Jesus own words

Why I bother with your hard hearts, I do not know, except that I know I decided to believe scripture rather than the traditions of men and that over 50 years ago.

When you decide scripture is worth believing, John 10:29,14:28 and discard your threeology and your meology, then you will have learned something

 

[JFish123]

Hmmm. Oh, look, no scripture, just conjecture and opinion.





Well, conjecture and opinion is not scripture, for those of us who believe scripture, your point 1 is useless to us.



Romans 5:15, if you should bother to read scripture tells us differently.



15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.



When you decide that scripture is where God gives answers, not in your opinions and conjectures and hypothesis and guesswork, then and only then can we have an scriptural discussion on this matter.



His contemporaries made the same mistake you are, they assumed they understood what he was talking about.



How interesting that you should take the word of Jesus' enemies rather than Jesus' words.



His enemies, you call them contemporaries, wanted to kill him, for what? For declaring that is the son of God?



He is the son of God, not God the Son.



31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.



How interesting you would take up the doctrines of those who were ready to kill him rather than those who believe on the name of the son of God.



You condemn yourselves with your own doctrines, you choose the doctrines of murderers rather than the words of Jesus Christ.



I am still waiting to hear from you on John 10:29 and John 14:28



the Father is greater than the son, that by Jesus' own words, proof again you prefer the words of those who want to murder Jesus rather than believe Jesus own words



Why I bother with your hard hearts, I do not know, except that I know I decided to believe scripture rather than the traditions of men and that over 50 years ago.



When you decide scripture is worth believing, John 10:29,14:28 and discard your threeology and your meology, then you will have learned something

I actually used 5 verses of scripture
And I already answered why Jesus said the Father was greater than Him with scripture
Jesus said that the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God but because Jesus was also a man, and as a man, he was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . . ," (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."

Jesus has two natures: divine and human. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father because He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9) and was made under the Law (Gal. 4:4). He became a man to die for people (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

A comparison of difference of position can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. He is her head (Eph. 5:23), but, he is no different in nature, and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love and commitment to the Lord.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man, and as a man, He was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law, namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

The Son of Man has All authority and ultimate Power, where everyone WORSHIPS Him, with an ETERNAL Kingdom.

Only after he laid down his life.


Ephesians 1:21 KJV


21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named , not only in this world, but also in that which is to come :



Philippians 2:9 KJV


9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

2. Yes Jesus was a prophet like Moses, but It didn't LIMIT Jesus to be just that and nothing more. Moses spoke, "Thus says The Lord," while Jesus (in His OWN Authority) said, "Truly, I tell you." Moses asked God to perform miracles. Jesus just made if happen in His OWN authority. Unlike Moses, He didn't pray to God for a miracle when He calmed the storm, or healed the blind, or made the lame walk. Jesus was a prophet unto Moses, but to say that's all He was, is limiting who He actually demonstrated Himself to be.

Deluded lies.

The only thing Jesus had power to do was willingly lay down his life.

All else he asked the Father for.



John 14:10 KJV


10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.



Jesus could not have called down 12 legions of angels without asking.



Matthew 26:53 KJV


53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

 

[Apple7]

Moses is a god according to God.

If Moses the prophet is a god, and Moses foretold that God would raise up a prophet like unto Moses out of his brethren, who then is that prophet like Moses?

Elohim is a flexible term and its meaning is determined via context.

Why don't you show us where Moses is Yahweh in scripture?

Fail.

 

[keypurr]

Agreed...



We have to remember that Trinity-denier-tards like Oatmeal, Pops, etc, etc, don't care about the original languages at all...zero....they are not critical thinkers...and they become offended when someone is...

Your full of baloneyApple7. You do not have the original language that Jesus used, I do.

I have the ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT. You need it to see the truth your missing.

How long will you remain in the dark kid?

 

[Apple7]

Too bad you did not read Titus 1:4 where God and Jesus Christ are distinctively different entities,...

Who, besides YOU, ever claimed that The Father was The Son in the first place?!

Only a Trinity-ignorant would have made such a sophomoric gaff.

Further....your example of Titus 1.4 grammatically proves that The Son is our Savior....making Him Theos.

 

[Apple7]

Your full of baloneyApple7. You do not have the original language that Jesus used, I do.

I have the ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT. You need it to see the truth your missing.

How long will you remain in the dark kid?

Pops....you going to use it, then?

Or just let it collect some electronic dust like your other scriptural aids that you NEVER use...

 

[CherubRam]

Psalm 82:6
I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.

John 10:33-34
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be [a god] God."
34 Yashua answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Yashua was asked if he was the Messiah, he was not asked if he was God. It has always been understood that the Messiah would be a god from Heaven.

John 10:24. The Jews who were there gathered around him, asking, “How long will you keep us in suspense, if you’re the Messiah, tell us plainly?”

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Elohim is a flexible term and its meaning is determined via context.

Why don't you show us where Moses is Yahweh in scripture?

Fail.

You are completely clueless.

That was his point, the same as Moses was not Yaweh, Jesus is not Yahweh.

Get outta kinder care.

 

[Apple7]

You are completely clueless.

That was his point, the same as Moses was not Yaweh, Jesus is not Yahweh.

Get outta kinder care.

That was not his point.

Further, Jesus is Yahweh.

 

[aikido7]

You don't have to believe in anything to be a Christian, other than seeing the image and reality of God in Jesus.

 

[genuineoriginal]

True Christians are Trinitarian.

Could you provide the scriptures that state that you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

So far, no one on this forum has been able to find those scriptures.

 

[Danoh]

Three In One - in the Son of Man

Romans 8:

3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

26. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Three In One

John 3:

19. Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Acts 17:

30. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31. Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

1 Peter 3:

18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

That the Son took on mortal flesh that He might humble Himself to the Father thru the Spirit as the Son of Man "like unto His brethren" should have, like they should, but had been unable to "for by one man's transgression sin entered the world; and death by sin" that He humbled Himself "even unto the death of the Cross" "that He should taste death for every man" on their behalf, does not take away - but in the heart of the same old apostates - from the fact of His "Before Abraham was, I am," John 8:58.

 

[daqq]

That was not his point.

Further, Jesus is Yahweh.

How is that even Trinitarianism? Your own avatar states the opposite when it says, "The Father is not the Son" and according to many passages YHWH is clearly the Father.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

...I have the ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT....

Could you report for us what, word-for-word, Matthew 16:18 say's in the Aramaic New Testament?


DJ

1.0
​

 

[chrysostom]

Could you report for us what, word-for-word, Matthew 16:18 say's in the Aramaic New Testament?


DJ

1.0
​

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