Creation vs. Evolution II

[6days]

part of evolution is to identify how species change to be efficient in an ever changing environement. I see no harm in this.

Agree... Species change and adapt (sometimes very rapidly). Adaptation is possible because of pre-existing genetic informatio. Not sure if you understand natural selection, but it eliminates genetic variation. Natural selection / adaptation is not a process that can increase info in a genome pool to turn frogs into philosophers.

1c. to say extinctions, pain, suffering, and death in general is not part of God's plan or in some way what God deemed "good" is to say one of two things ( or so how I see it for now) a. these things are not good OR b. we were to refrain from change.*
perhaps there are other possible outcomes.*

In Genesis we see the curse on creation will cause pain, sufferring and death. Sufferring can't also be part of what God calls "very good" in Gen. 1:31

In scripture we get glimpses of a restored creation... or what God calls very good. *Ex.*

Is. 11:6 "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; a young child will lead them."*

And...

Rev. 21:4 "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

I hope its ok... I will start a new thread around your point# 3 answer.

 

[patrick jane]

Silent Hunter and Hedshaker can come back now !! Where are they?

 

[randomvim]

I strongly disagree with #3. Would you mind if I start a new thread asking others to comment kindly? (I won't yse your name). If you prefer...I can just answer myself in this thread, but I think its an important discussion others should engage in.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using TheologyOnline mobile app

you can use my name. not an issue. start which ever thread you like

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

 

[randomvim]

Agree... Species change and adapt (sometimes very rapidly). Adaptation is possible because of pre-existing genetic informatio. Not sure if you understand natural selection, but it eliminates genetic variation. Natural selection / adaptation is not a process that can increase info in a genome pool to turn frogs into philosophers.
In Genesis we see the curse on creation will cause pain, sufferring and death. Sufferring can't also be part of what God calls "very good" in Gen. 1:31

In scripture we get glimpses of a restored creation... or what God calls very good. *Ex.*

Is. 11:6 "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; a young child will lead them."*

And...

Rev. 21:4 "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

I hope its ok... I will start a new thread around your point# 3 answer.

Sorry for tardy. I was not aware of your responses. Perhaps you already made that other post, I will look for it.

1. I do not see this curse as a curse but a change. As for those things, they are still a means to understand the world around us. If God deems the dark and the light to be good, then why not the pain?

Bad? no. but unfortunate.

 

[6days]

Sorry for tardy. I was not aware of your responses. Perhaps you already made that other post, I will look for it.

1. I do not see this curse as a curse but a change. As for those things, they are still a means to understand the world around us. If God deems the dark and the light to be good, then why not the pain?

Bad? no. but unfortunate.

I'm not sure what you mean. In Genesis 3, God calls it a curse...You disagree with that terminology?

 

[randomvim]

I'm not sure what you mean. In Genesis 3, God calls it a curse...You disagree with that terminology?

No, I disagree with calling the outcome a curse. All I know is what I have lived. my curse or in otherwords events of both good and bad nature help me understand my world. for good and worst; my paranoia, my dreams, my honesty, etc.

Pain tells me something is wrong.
Sadness puts the world in perspective.
And if I believe in God, then death - though difficult to overcome - is but a grain like me.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

 

[MichaelCadry]

Silent Hunter and Hedshaker can come back now !! Where are they?

Dear patrickj, I've contacted them both and let them know. If they don't want to post here anymore, then we'll find out soon enough. Hey, we tried! Will chat more soon!! Also, where did gcthomas go to? Did you all scare him off, or perhaps I did? It's quite simple to follow the rules for TOL. You just have to leave your potty mouth at bay. Time will tell.

Praise The Lord!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

1a. dont believe evolutionism is a thing. maybe some rely on it too much.

1b. part of evolution is to identify how species change to be efficient in an ever changing environement. I see no harm in this.

1c. to say extinctions, pain, suffering, and death in general is not part of God's plan or in some way what God deemed "good" is to say one of two things ( or so how I see it for now) a. these things are not good OR b. we were to refrain from change.
perhaps there are other possible outcomes.

1d. I am still on my road of study but I do not view those things as bad.

2. I do not hope to make things what they are not. Part of study is to try and identify what others cant or dont want to. what I cant or dont want to see. to see the deeper meaning to things. Some things may be clear cut but not everything.

3. why Did Christ need to die a physical death? He didnt. that was a choice, to accept. otherwise redemption could have taken form in any manor. Instead, it represents a deeper meaning.

Dear randomvim,

Re: No. 3, Jesus did not have a choice to speak of. He followed God's Wishes as it had described Jesus' death in the OT, like a lamb to the slaughter: a lamb sacrifice. Something to the effect that, 'He was wounded for our transgressions and by His Stripes are we healed.' I don't know if that is exact, word for word, scripture, but I remember it {See Isaiah 53:5KJV}. Doesn't it also foretell in the OT that they would give Jesus vinegar instead of water {See Psalm 69:21KJV}? Check it out! Also, the word you need is 'manner,' not manor. Manor is a mansion or home on a lot of land.

May God Be With You,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Agree... Species change and adapt (sometimes very rapidly). Adaptation is possible because of preexisting genetic information. Not sure if you understand natural selection, but it eliminates genetic variation. Natural selection / adaptation is not a process that can increase info in a genome pool to turn frogs into philosophers.
In Genesis we see the curse on creation will cause pain, suffering and death. Suffering can't also be part of what God calls "very good" in Gen. 1:31

In scripture we get glimpses of a restored creation... or what God calls very good. *Ex.*

Is. 11:6 "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; a young child will lead them."*

And...

Rev. 21:4 "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

I hope its okay... I will start a new thread around your point# 3 answer.

Dear 6days,

When you start your thread about point #3, let me know what it is called; the name of it. I look forward to it. Thanks much!!

Well, it looks like we will not see Silent Hunter returning here, or Hedshaker, to boot! I let them both know a while ago. Perhaps they feel too out-of-it to post again. See what happens.

Okay, please let me know about paragraph 1 when you can. Godspeed!!

Praise You, Jesus,

Michael

 

[randomvim]

Dear randomvim,

Re: No. 3, Jesus did not have a choice to speak of. He followed God's Wishes as it had described Jesus' death in the OT, like a lamb to the slaughter: a lamb sacrifice. Something to the effect that, 'He was wounded for our transgressions and by His Stripes are we healed.' I don't know if that is exact, word for word, scripture, but I remember it {See Isaiah 53:5KJV}. Doesn't it also foretell in the OT that they would give Jesus vinegar instead of water {See Psalm 69:21KJV}? Check it out! Also, the word you need is 'manner,' not manor. Manor is a mansion or home on a lot of land.

May God Be With You,

Michael

Except Jesus is God. Although described as or in a trinity, Jesus is still the One God - of whom would have made the decision to commence as He saw fit. And having done so, the choice to have it done the way it did happen occured way before Jesus came to flesh.

Even if we consider seperate acts, the single act of redemption could have happened any way thinkable. There is no requirement on God.

 

[patrick jane]

God is the Best !!!

 

[6days]

Even if we consider seperate acts, the single act of redemption could have happened any way thinkable. There is no requirement on God.

That demeans the sacrifice Christ made for us, suggesting the cross was not necessary.*

There was / is no way of redemption for us, without Christ defeating physical death. The penalty for sin was both physical death and spiritual separtion from God. Without shedding of blood (physical death) there is no remission of sin. The problem though is we are sinners, and our own blood / death does not make us Holy. There was only one who was sinless who could be our mediator, who can make us righteous. *He was the blameless, sinless lamb ofGod who satisfied the penalty for me. *"The**Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam--that is, Christ--is a life-giving Spirit." 1 Cor. 15:45

 

[MichaelCadry]

That demeans the sacrifice Christ made for us, suggesting the cross was not necessary.*

There was / is no way of redemption for us, without Christ defeating physical death. The penalty for sin was both physical death and spiritual separation from God. Without shedding of blood (physical death) there is no remission of sin. The problem though is we are sinners, and our own blood / death does not make us Holy. There was only one who was sinless who could be our mediator, who can make us righteous. *He was the blameless, sinless lamb of God who satisfied the penalty for me. *"The**Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam--that is, Christ--is a life-giving Spirit." 1 Cor. 15:45

Dear 6days,

You are absolutely correct down to the letter!! Congratulations!! Someone who knows what they are talking about. Not only did Jesus defeat Death, but He also defeated Hell, by remaining there for 3 days. He made it through it. That is why He has the keys to Death and Hell. He truly deserves His Hierarchy. He got to endure all that the devil could muster while He was in Hell and kept His Faith and Wits during His stint there. I suppose that you all would disagree with me.

Hey, what happened to Jonahdog and Greg Jennings?? And others like, Lon and Cross Reference. And to really wonder, where did DavisBJ go? And Tyrathca? Jose Fly? And so many more!! Where are they posting now, 6days? Well, just thought I'd ponder it all. Remember The Barbarian and noguru, and Stripe, and let's not forget Stuu!?? What do you think, 6days?

Well, I'd best get going. Just a bit of reminiscing. Please God, Bless Us All!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Randomvim,

Where did you come up with that moniker? What does it stand for? Just wondering!

Live Life Full Of Joy And Love, If You Get The Chance!!

Michael

 

[randomvim]

That demeans the sacrifice Christ made for us, suggesting the cross was not necessary.*

There was / is no way of redemption for us, without Christ defeating physical death. The penalty for sin was both physical death and spiritual separtion from God. Without shedding of blood (physical death) there is no remission of sin. The problem though is we are sinners, and our own blood / death does not make us Holy. There was only one who was sinless who could be our mediator, who can make us righteous. *He was the blameless, sinless lamb ofGod who satisfied the penalty for me. *"The**Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person." But the last Adam--that is, Christ--is a life-giving Spirit." 1 Cor. 15:45

why does this deminish the act?

Perhaps I should wait for the other thread to start to go deeper into it?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Except Jesus is God. Although described as or in a trinity, Jesus is still the One God - of whom would have made the decision to commence as He saw fit. And having done so, the choice to have it done the way it did happen occured way before Jesus came to flesh.

Even if we consider seperate acts, the single act of redemption could have happened any way thinkable. There is no requirement on God.

Dear randomvim,

Jesus is not God! He is the SON of God, and God is also called Jehovah, and to some, Yahweh, and to the Jews, sometimes simply G-d! Jesus is almost exactly like God, the Father, but nevertheless, He is God's Only Son!! And the Holy Ghost's name is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit! The name Joshua is a derivative of Jesus or Jehovah, but nevertheless, Joshua is not Jesus or Jehovah. Jesus, the SON of God, prayed to His FATHER, God, in the garden before His capture by the Romans/Jews.

Just like Elizabeth can be Liz, Lizzy, Beth, Bethany, Bette, Betty, Liza, etc. They are all different names for different people. Just like the name Susan. It can be Suzie, Susie, Sue, Susanne, Suzanne, etc. Do you get it now? Jesus and His Father, Jehovah {Yahweh, I AM, God!!} are other examples. That should be enough. And God knows what it is like to lose His Son to be killed and buried. It was painful to see His Son on that Cross, but it was for us men and women, our sake. Someone had to pay the price for men and women choosing the devil's ways over God's ways. Satan said, well these souls are mine for they choose my ways over yours, God. A New Covenant was necessary that, if Jesus would come down to Earth as a man and live a sin-free life, and die a horrible death, then that would satisfy Satan. It was God's Will to devise and accept such a deal.

Now you're getting closer, amigo!! I'm not trying to dis you. I have no possible reason to dismiss you, to be honest. Just trying to help you know is all.

It's been warmer and sunny here in Phoenix and it's suppose to last a while, I think. Hope it keeps getting warmer. We've been in the upper 50's and lower 60's lately. Even 55° is better than 20°! Sometimes, we are even in the 70's now.

Your take on the blood of Christ is errant also. God has determined it to be, so who is going to disagree with Him?? I hope not you. It talks of Jesus in the OT regarding His death, and His stripes {which are made/ intermingled with blood}, and His crucifixion was also foretold in the Bible.

To tell you secretly, the Lord God wants to quit working full time, and He wants to enter into His Rest, and leave the work to His Son Jesus to be in Charge of. Jesus will take God's place and He will reign over the Earth, but He will always still be the SON of God.

May God Keep You Strong When You Stand By Him,

Michael

 

[randomvim]

Dear randomvim,

Jesus is not God! He is the SON of God, and God is also called Jehovah, and to some, Yahweh, and to the Jews, sometimes simply G-d! Jesus is almost exactly like God, the Father, but nevertheless, He is God's Only Son!! And the Holy Ghost's name is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit! The name Joshua is a derivative of Jesus or Jehovah, but nevertheless, Joshua is not Jesus or Jehovah. Jesus, the SON of God, prayed to His FATHER, God, in the garden before His capture by the Romans/Jews.

Just like Elizabeth can be Liz, Lizzy, Beth, Bethany, Bette, Betty, Liza, etc. They are all different names for different people. Just like the name Susan. It can be Suzie, Susie, Sue, Susanne, Suzanne, etc. Do you get it now? Jesus and His Father, Jehovah {Yahweh, I AM, God!!} are other examples. That should be enough. And God knows what it is like to lose His Son to be killed and buried. It was painful to see His Son on that Cross, but it was for us men and women, our sake. Someone had to pay the price for men and women choosing the devil's ways over God's ways. Satan said, well these souls are mine for they choose my ways over yours, God. A New Covenant was necessary that, if Jesus would come down to Earth as a man and live a sin-free life, and die a horrible death, then that would satisfy Satan. It was God's Will to devise and accept such a deal.

Now you're getting closer, amigo!! I'm not trying to dis you. I have no possible reason to dismiss you, to be honest. Just trying to help you know is all.

It's been warmer and sunny here in Phoenix and it's suppose to last a while, I think. Hope it keeps getting warmer. We've been in the upper 50's and lower 60's lately. Even 55° is better than 20°! Sometimes, we are even in the 70's now.

Your take on the blood of Christ is errant also. God has determined it to be, so who is going to disagree with Him?? I hope not you. It talks of Jesus in the OT regarding His death, and His stripes {which are made/ intermingled with blood}, and His crucifixion was also foretold in the Bible.

To tell you secretly, the Lord God wants to quit working full time, and He wants to enter into His Rest, and leave the work to His Son Jesus to be in Charge of. Jesus will take God's place and He will reign over the Earth, but He will always still be the SON of God.

May God Keep You Strong When You Stand By Him,

Michael

1. This doesnt answer my question as to how my point of view deminishes the over all act.

2. if Jesus is not god, then what?

3. I do not wish to disagree with God, but I may disagree with man.

 

[MichaelCadry]

1. This doesnt answer my question as to how my point of view deminishes the over all act.

2. if Jesus is not god, then what?

3. I do not wish to disagree with God, but I may disagree with man.

Dear randomvim,

How're you doing today? I hope that all is well. Your point of view does not diminish anything. Just try trusting 6days and myself to help you out. 6days is a wealth of information and compassion. I'm the same way, so everything is cool!

Jesus is quite similar to His Father {Our God} in His features and Spirit. It's like having two glasses of wine, and they are both half-full. Well, God is the One who is more than half-full because there are a few drops of wine more in His glass. So Jesus is close to God and they are almost the same. I hope that answers your questions.

It is written, "Go ye therefore, and teach them in the name of the Father {God}, and of the Son {Jesus}, and of the Holy Ghost" {Matt. 28:19KJV}. Now, Jesus saying that, you should all believe the the Son is not the Father, and you might also be convinced that there is a Trinity. Make of it what you will. I still believe what I want.

You see, randomvim, I just follow the words of Jesus. It's quite easy then. Jesus did say that the Father was God, and that He was the Son, and the Holy Ghost is quite sanctified indeed. Never speak nonsense about the Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit. That is an unforgivable sin. Be careful. Don't think of any negative thoughts in your brain about God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, yourself, your family and friends, and your fellow men and women. Keep good thoughts as long as you are able. There are certain things in this world that just have to happen, which means certain people will die. I will explain more later.

Good to have you posting. If I haven't answered your questions, you might want to ask 6days what he thinks also. It may be the same, and it may not. I have the feeling that he will make of it the same way. Got to get going for now. Be Free Now!!

May God Bless You And Seek You Out!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

What's been happening with you? I was wondering if you had some more words of wisdom to add to my last message to randomvim. He's trying to seek out for God, I think. That's wonderful news, for God loves those who seek Him out. That is written in the Bible too. Well, I ought to get to bed now. It's 5 a.m. Thanks tons, 6days!!

The Very Best Of Blessings From God, Always!!

Michael

 

[6days]

2. if Jesus is not god, then what?

That is like asking "if Jesus did not physically ressurect, then what?" Or "What if Jesus secretly lusted?" Essentially you are asking does it matter if the Bible isn't totally accurate.*


If you are doubting Jesus is God, tell us why. Lets discuss it.