1 of 5 for GT to Debate (The entire book of Galatians)

[Nameless.In.Grace]

It's time to move to the next chunk of Galatians.

All debate is to be temporarily stopped.

Please refer to the first few posts of this thread to reorientate to what is going on here.


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

1 of 5 for GT to Debate (The entire book of Galatians)

Galatians 1

11*Now I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel preached by me is not based on human thought.
12*For I did not receive it from a human source and I was not taught it, but it came by a revelation from Jesus Christ.
13*For you have heard about my former way of life in Judaism: I persecuted God’s church to an extreme degree and tried to destroy it.
14*I advanced in Judaism beyond many contemporaries among my people, because I was extremely zealous for the traditions of my ancestors.
15*But when God, who from my birth set me apart and called me by His grace, was pleased
16*to reveal His Son in me, so that I could preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone.
17*I did not go up to Jerusalem to those who had become apostles before me; instead I went to Arabia and came back to Damascus.
18*Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to get to know Cephas, and I stayed with him 15 days.
19*But I didn’t see any of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.
20*Now I am not lying in what I write to you. God is my witness.
21*Afterward, I went to the regions of Syria and Cilicia.
22*I remained personally unknown to the Judean churches in Christ;
23*they simply kept hearing: “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith he once tried to destroy.”
24*And they glorified God because of me.

Galatians 2 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Paul Defends His Gospel at Jerusalem

Then after 14 years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along also.
2*I went up according to a revelation and presented to them the gospel I preach among the Gentiles—but privately to those recognized as leaders—so that I might not be running, or have run the race, in vain.
3*But not even Titus who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
4*This issue arose because of false brothers smuggled in, who came in secretly to spy on the freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, in order to enslave us.
5*But we did not give up and submit to these people for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would be preserved for you.
6*Now from those recognized as important (what they really were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism)—they added nothing to me.
7*On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter was for the circumcised,
8*since the One at work in Peter for an apostleship to the circumcised was also at work in me for the Gentiles.
9*When James, Cephas, and John, recognized as pillars, acknowledged the grace that had been given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to me and Barnabas, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
10*They asked only that we would remember the poor, which I made every effort to do.



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[jamie]

You went against there being a change to the law, and now you want to pretend I do not know what the changes are but you do?

The change was with regard to jurisdiction. The earth still exists.

 

[God's Truth]

Galatians 1

11*Now I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel preached by me is not based on human thought.
12*For I did not receive it from a human source and I was not taught it, but it came by a revelation from Jesus Christ.
13*For you have heard about my former way of life in Judaism: I persecuted God’s church to an extreme degree and tried to destroy it.
14*I advanced in Judaism beyond many contemporaries among my people, because I was extremely zealous for the traditions of my ancestors.
15*But when God, who from my birth set me apart and called me by His grace, was pleased
16*to reveal His Son in me, so that I could preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone.
17*I did not go up to Jerusalem to those who had become apostles before me; instead I went to Arabia and came back to Damascus.
18*Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to get to know Cephas, and I stayed with him 15 days.
19*But I didn’t see any of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.
20*Now I am not lying in what I write to you. God is my witness.
21*Afterward, I went to the regions of Syria and Cilicia.
22*I remained personally unknown to the Judean churches in Christ;
23*they simply kept hearing: “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith he once tried to destroy.”
24*And they glorified God because of me.

Galatians 2 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Paul Defends His Gospel at Jerusalem

Then after 14 years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along also.
2*I went up according to a revelation and presented to them the gospel I preach among the Gentiles—but privately to those recognized as leaders—so that I might not be running, or have run the race, in vain.
3*But not even Titus who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
4*This issue arose because of false brothers smuggled in, who came in secretly to spy on the freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, in order to enslave us.
5*But we did not give up and submit to these people for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would be preserved for you.
6*Now from those recognized as important (what they really were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism)—they added nothing to me.
7*On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter was for the circumcised,
8*since the One at work in Peter for an apostleship to the circumcised was also at work in me for the Gentiles.
9*When James, Cephas, and John, recognized as pillars, acknowledged the grace that had been given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to me and Barnabas, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
10*They asked only that we would remember the poor, which I made every effort to do.



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Paul is confirming that he teaches and preaches the same gospel as Peter and the other apostles, by the will of God.

 

[God's Truth]

The change was with regard to jurisdiction. The earth still exists.

You do not even understand what you are saying or what you are arguing against me.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

1 of 5 for GT to Debate (The entire book of Galatians)

Before I get too deep into matters here, I need to point out that 10 verses into Galatians, I have already zeroed in on the word curse being linked to the Law.

I was immediately challenged by Daqq, who pointed out the Greek for this word in hopes to take my focus off of the Pentateuch/Moses/Law. The Greek word Daqq translated from the word curse still correlates to Abomination and Daqq, by own admission, referenced this word symbolizing a cutting off. This is paramount to note. The Law cuts us off from God. Only blood sacrifice symbolized returning to good standing with God. This cutting off is a picture of removal from God. Only Jesus makes us right. No manner of fleshly obedience matters to God. He shows no favoritism.

The word Abomination is EXACT verbiage out of the law. In specifics, homosexual behavior was considered abomination as well as eating shrimp. Also, physical Circumcision is a picture of Human obedience to the Law as a requirement for Salvation and Forgiveness. Physical circumcision was given in the Books of Moses (Genisis - Deuteronomy) and as it was a physical act of obedience to God in the flesh of a man's intimate flesh, it symbolizes physical obedience in physical flesh.

If you haven't seen that mixing obedience to the law with the gospel is dangerous yet, then weigh this thread carefully. Galatians makes no effort to disguise that the gospel is by faith, and for this reason it is my favorite book.

One more warning before I move forward, if you attempt to split up THE BOOK OF THE LAW into Physical and Ceremonial, you are spitting in the face of Judaism. Paul was a Pharasee, and he knew that the Law was ONE. As Galatians relentlessly becomes a hammer to any that define human obedience as a requirement to salvation, the only common out for people of fleshly obedience is to split the Law. Paul knew as even modern Jews know that Moses works in the Pentateuch are inseparable.

You can simply look from Deuteronomy 5 - 31:26 and see what the Law is. This is even under the context of Moses being replaced by Joshua (Which is the true name of Jesus in original Hebrew). If you move forward to chapter 34 where Moses dies, you can see the finality of Moses. Again, Moses is immediately replaced, not filled in for, by Joshua. There is NO splitting the Law. This is a lie and falsification of scripture. To split the Law is a sin of the law by God's decree.

Splitting the Law of Moses is like splitting a legal document into two parts illegally and claiming that one of them can be removed from a ratified document.

Where did this Law thing start? The initial Law was to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What gives the knowledge of good and evil? Law is the origin of knowing good and evil. What was the decree for disobedience? Death was the decree and the Serpent was assigned that duty as a curse for initiating disobedience with deceit.

Where did the Law and Standards of God's perfection start in direct relation to Moses? Mount Sanai (Sanai means sin) was the birth place of the stone Law. There is no mercy to the human obedience types in Pauls coming words, and I foreshadow that Galatians will bring much condemnation to mixing any portion of Moses with the work of Jesus for salvation.

So, gear up, and be patient with me, because I will point out every possible reference to the Law as it arises in Galatians. I will not complicate the gospel, and I pray that those who read this fully understand the implications of a Jew of Jews and Pharasee of Pharasees named Saul, who gave up his perfect circumcision of flesh to embrace the only one true gospel and teach grace.

Pop your popcorn and prepare for the unapologetic revelation of why Paul was one of many of our early church representatives that preached under the threat of death by his Jewish brothers.

Galatians 1:

11*Now I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel preached by me is not based on human thought.

Immediately, Paul identifies that His flesh has nothing to do with the equation. He has explained that God alone orchestrates our salvation. To reason out ordnance or religious adherence that is man made to any portion of scripture is in direct opposition to the Spiritual revelation of Jesus.

12*For I did not receive it from a human source and I was not taught it, but it came by a revelation from Jesus Christ.

Paul is placing ALL of his hope on Jesus's Life, Death and glorious resurrection.

13*For you have heard about my former way of life in Judaism: I persecuted God’s church to an extreme degree and tried to destroy it.

Paul was king of the law! He was a picture of Satan. He not only professed perfection, but he accused and killed the followers of the true gospel that apposed the teachings of Law Keeping Judaism. Moses/The Law was in direct opposition to the freely dispensed grace of Jesus!

A brief study of the Protoevangelium:
Proto (First) Evangelium (Gospel)

Genisis 3:
Then the Lord God said to the serpent:

Because you have done this,

(God to Satan; because you were entrusted to protect, but have instead deceived my Bride to disobey.........)

you are cursed more than any livestock
and more than any wild animal.

(I curse you with the most awful duty)

You will move on your belly

(You are declared my lowest servant this day)

and eat dust all the days of your life.

(You now rule over the fading kingdom of dust, and must ensure that mankind returns to dust)

15*
I will put hostility between you and the woman,(You and my bride will forever be at war)
and between your seed and her seed.

(Children of flesh will have hostility against children of faith/trust)

He will strike your head,

(Jesus will destroy your power, as you strike his heal with your venomous evil, I will crush your head!)

and you will strike his heel.

(Your attempt to enslave my Bride because of her disobedience will merely be as a snake strike to my heal)

16*He said to the woman:

(Eve, mother of mankind, mother of the Bride)

I will intensify your labor pains;
you will bear children in anguish.

You will suffer because your disobedience has forced a spiritual separation from me and the serpent is lording over you, but this is only labor pains that will bare or reunion through Jesus.

Your desire will be for your husband,

You will desire Unity with me, though you have distrusted Me.

yet he will rule over you.

I will indeed bring us back together.


1 Corinthians 15:

55*
Death (Serpent) where is your victory?
Death (Serpent), where is your sting (Serpent Bite)
56*
Now the sting (Serpent Bite ) of death is sin,(Deviation from Perfection) and the power of sin is the law (Moses/The Law forged of stone and expanded upon to 613 laws on Sanai (Mountain of Sin)
57*
But thanks be to God, who GIVES us the victory
THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ! (Not our fleshly obedience/ Circumcision of the flesh)

14*I advanced in Judaism beyond many contemporaries among my people, because I was extremely zealous for the traditions of my ancestors.

Paul was a super Pharasee and Mega Law Keeper and Enforcer. He was engrossed in the traditions of Moses and his people!

15*But when God, who from my birth set me apart and called me by His grace, was pleased
16*to reveal His Son in me, so that I could preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone.

Jesus planned to use Paul to proclaim the gospel to the gentile sinners that he was so hateful of as a Pharasee. He was removed from the obedience of the law and bathed in grace that divided him from the traditions and teachings of his Jewish family.

Paul turned away from the Law and turned to the Jesus. The moment hands were laid on Him and he accepted Jesus in place of his law keeping, his vision was restored. Jesus's Holy Spirit dwelled within Paul and he did not immediately go to anyone to understand what had happened.

17*I did not go up to Jerusalem to those who had become apostles before me; instead I went to Arabia and came back to Damascus.

Paul did not go to the place Jesus died and resurrected, instead he went to Arabia. This is somewhat of a mystery, but know that Mount Sanai is in Arabia, and Paul refers to Sanai later on.

18*Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to get to know Cephas, and I stayed with him 15 days.

THREE years in Arabia! That's a long time and then, finally, Paul went to the place of Jesus and is finally acquainted with Peter (little rock upon the Big Rock).

19*But I didn’t see any of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.

Interestingly enough, James and Paul are Gospel revelators of great magnitude.

20*Now I am not lying in what I write to you. God is my witness.

Paul is emphasizing that he is not falsifying a thing! He is bound to Jesus with every word he speaks.

21*Afterward, I went to the regions of Syria and Cilicia.
22*I remained personally unknown to the Judean churches in Christ;
23*they simply kept hearing: “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith he once tried to destroy.”

Paul, who was a man like those of his ancestors that rejected His King and proclaimed "Crucify Him", was a mere wraith to the churches of the crescent.

Here, Paul is referred to as one who Persecuted Faith in the WAY and was astonishing to the early church, as he who persecuted Faith, now Proclaims it!

24*And they glorified God because of me.

Paul no longer glorys himself. His effect on others makes them glory God!

Galatians 2Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

Paul Defends His Gospel at Jerusalem

Then after 14 years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along also.

Paul returned to Jerusalem after proclaiming the Gospel and going through many trials and challenges!

2*I went up according to a revelation and presented to them the gospel I preach among the Gentiles—but privately to those recognized as leaders—so that I might not be running, or have run the race, in vain.

Paul was revealed that it was necessary to guide the gentile leaders, because if they perverted the gospel, he knew that the gospel would be destroyed with lies, despite his best efforts.

3*But not even Titus who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

And now the allegory, parable and example of the perversion of the gospel cranks up! Law keepers were so rabid amongst the church that a Greek got physically circumcised as a sign of the old covenant!

4*This issue arose because of false brothers smuggled in, who came in secretly to spy on the freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, in order to enslave us.

People of Stone, outward obedience had infiltrated the church. They were curious about the freedom and peace that the gospel brought, but in the end, they began to mix Law with Grace to the point of physical circumcision. I cannot emphasize how symbolic physical circumcision is on this matter. It is a reference to Abrahamic faith and it is also a matter of manhood that propagates the seeds of life. But, this sounds crude to bring up! Just wait for it, at the end of Galatians. I will tie back to this statement.

We either spread the seed/sperm of fleshly obedience, or we spread the seed of Spiritual Faith in Jesus Christ. Children of the flesh are falsely born again and propagate more children of the flesh, or children of the Spirit are born and they propagate more children of the spirit.

5*But we did not give up and submit to these people for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would be preserved for you.

Bottom line, Pauls in town and the Law based are about to get SLAMMED with the greatest gospel hammer ever written!

6*Now from those recognized as important (what they really were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism)—they added nothing to me.

Paul made no distinction of wealth, heritage, title or fleshly righteousness. Only the gospel of Jesus edified Paul

7*On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter was for the circumcised,

Paul was the Gospel orator to the Gentiles and Peter was the Gospel orator to the Jews.

8*since the One at work in Peter for an apostleship to the circumcised was also at work in me for the Gentiles.

Jesus's Holy Spirit guided both Paul and Peter in their delivery of the Gospel.

9*When James, Cephas, and John, recognized as pillars, acknowledged the grace that had been given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to me and Barnabas, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

Gospel giants recognized the Spirit within Paul and Barnabas and all worked together to spread the Good news.

10*They asked only that we would remember the poor, which I made every effort to do.

Poor is forever a deep statement of lack of wealth or physical condition in health or affliction of sin that caused people to be shunned.

1st Chunk 1A

2nd Chunk 1B

2nd Chunk

3rd Chunk

4th Chunk

6th Chunk

[url="http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?118728-1-of-5-for-GT-to-Debate-(The-entire-book-of-Galatians)&p=4766403&viewfull=1#post4766403]7th Chunk[/url]

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[daqq]

Galatians 1

12*For I did not receive it from a human source and I was not taught it, but it came by a revelation from Jesus Christ.

That translation is about as bogus as a three dollar bill:

Galatians 1:12 KJV
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:12
12 ουδε γαρ εγω παρα ανθρωπου παρελαβον αυτο ουτε εδιδαχθην αλλα δι αποκαλυψεως ιησου χριστου

Revelation 1:1
1 αποκαλυψις ιησου χριστου ην εδωκεν αυτω ο θεος δειξαι τοις δουλοις αυτου α δει γενεσθαι εν ταχει και εσημανεν αποστειλας δια του αγγελου αυτου τω δουλω αυτου ιωαννη

αποκαλυψεως ιησου χριστου = αποκαλυψις ιησου χριστου

Both forms of apokalupsis are singular forms in the above statements; not "revelations", as in the many revelations which Paul later received, but rather singular: "Revelation of Messiah Yeshua", (the Scroll). Paul went into the desert of Arabia and immersed, (for six months), just as Ananias who was sent to him from the Master had commanded him to do. He immersed in the Scroll which Ananias had given him when he "put his hands" upon him to receive his "sight" anew. His new sight is therefore not of the carnal man but rather seeing all things according to the Spirit of the Testimony of Yeshua, (for the Spirit of the Prophecy is the Testimony of Yeshua, and testimony is SPIRIT). His Gospel is therefore not of man because he received it from the pen of Yohanan the Immerser, (who wrote the Scroll of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua), by way of Hananiah who was sent to him at Dam-meshek Qumran. After six months in the desert with "Aretas-Azazel" after him, (for so is the typology of Aretas the king of the desert), he returned to Dam-meshek, (which means "blood inheritor", and is why the Essenes called their community Damascus), and fulfilled his remaining three years at Qumran-Damasek preaching that Yeshua is the Anointed One, (for a total of three years and six months), before going up to Yerushalaim, (of above), which event is also recorded in his visions and revelations, (2 Cor 11:32-33 through 2 Cor 12:1-4).

 

[God's Truth]

I have to edit this on my laptop. It will be finalized soon.

Before I get too deep into matters here, I need to point out that 10 verses into Galatians, I have already zeroed in on the word curse being linked to the Law.

I was immediately challenged by Daqq, who pointed out the Greek for this word in hopes to take my focus off of the Pentateuch/Moses/Law. The Greek word Daqq translated from the word curse still correlates to Abomination and Daqq, by own admission, referenced this word symbolizing a cutting off. This is paramount to note. The Law cuts us off from God. Only blood sacrifice symbolized returning to good standing with God. This cutting off is a picture of removal from God. Only Jesus makes us right. No manner of fleshly obedience matters to God. He shows no favoritism.

The word Abomination is EXACT verbiage out of the law. In specifics, homosexual behavior was considered abomination as well as eating shrimp. Also, physical Circumcision is a picture of Human obedience to the Law as a requirement for Salvation and Forgiveness. Physical circumcision was given in the Books of Moses (Genisis - Deuteronomy) and a it was physical act of obedience to God in the flesh, that symbolizes physical obedience.

If you haven't seen that mixing obedience to the law with the gospel is dangerous yet, then weigh this thread carefully. Galatians makes no effort to disguise that the gospel is by faith, and for this reason it is my favorite book.

One more warning before I move forward, if you attempt to split up THE BOOK OF THE LAW into Physical and Ceremonial, you are spitting in the face of Judaism. Paul was a Pharasee, and he knew that the Law was ONE. As Galatians relentlessly becomes a hammer to any that define human obedience as a requirement to salvation, the only common out for people of fleshly obedience is to split the Law. Paul knew as even modern Jews know that Moses works in the Pentateuch are inseparable.

You have already slipped into false beliefs. You are now at the beginning of false beliefs and teachings.
I can prove easily that you are wrong, for the OLD LAW says to love your neighbor as yourself, AS DOES THE NEW LAW.

 

[God's Truth]

To give the impression that you cannot obey ANYTHING the old law says is ridiculous. One must know what is no longer required because Jesus fulfilled it, such as the purification/ceremonial laws. The old law had righteous works for the people to do to clean themselves. Now Jesus cleans us.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

1 of 5 for GT to Debate (The entire book of Galatians)

You have already slipped into false beliefs. You are now at the beginning of false beliefs and teachings.
I can prove easily that you are wrong, for the OLD LAW says to love your neighbor as yourself, AS DOES THE NEW LAW.

GT,

I agree with you on the point of loving your neighbor.

However, the Law causes us to Judge ourselves and others.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law of perfection.

By recognizing He alone is perfect, we can Love ourselves in our imperfection. This allows others to be loved by us despite their imperfections.

These words seem simple, but the Law and Prophets hang on them.

I understand you believe I am a raging heretic, and you have been kind in expressing your displeasure with my words.

I only know that when I judge myself by the law, I tend to judge others by it too. I am intimate with personal experience that only God is Perfect, and in this, I am joined to unconditional Love that bares no judgment.


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

To give the impression that you cannot obey ANYTHING the old law says is ridiculous. One must know what is no longer required because Jesus fulfilled it, such as the purification/ceremonial laws. The old law had righteous works for the people to do to clean themselves. Now Jesus cleans us.

GT,

I respect your words.

But the old law never made a single person clean.

Only the Promised blood of atonement made people clean.

This is my stance and I am thankful to have the opportunity to hear yours, as well.


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

That translation is about as bogus as a three dollar bill:

Galatians 1:12 KJV
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:12
12 ουδε γαρ εγω παρα ανθρωπου παρελαβον αυτο ουτε εδιδαχθην αλλα δι αποκαλυψεως ιησου χριστου

Revelation 1:1
1 αποκαλυψις ιησου χριστου ην εδωκεν αυτω ο θεος δειξαι τοις δουλοις αυτου α δει γενεσθαι εν ταχει και εσημανεν αποστειλας δια του αγγελου αυτου τω δουλω αυτου ιωαννη

αποκαλυψεως ιησου χριστου = αποκαλυψις ιησου χριστου

Both forms of apokalupsis are singular forms in the above statements; not "revelations", as in the many revelations which Paul later received, but rather singular: "Revelation of Messiah Yeshua", (the Scroll). Paul went into the desert of Arabia and immersed, (for six months), just as Ananias who was sent to him from the Master had commanded him to do. He immersed in the Scroll which Ananias had given him when he "put his hands" upon him to receive his "sight" anew. His new sight is therefore not of the carnal man but rather seeing all things according to the Spirit of the Testimony of Yeshua, (for the Spirit of the Prophecy is the Testimony of Yeshua, and testimony is SPIRIT). His Gospel is therefore not of man because he received it from the pen of Yohanan the Immerser, (who wrote the Scroll of the Revelation of Messiah Yeshua), by way of Hananiah who was sent to him at Dam-meshek Qumran. After six months in the desert with "Aretas-Azazel" after him, (for so is the typology of Aretas the king of the desert), he returned to Dam-meshek, (which means "blood inheritor", and is why the Essenes called their community Damascus), and fulfilled his remaining three years at Qumran-Damasek preaching that Yeshua is the Anointed One, (for a total of three years and six months), before going up to Yerushalaim, (of above), which event is also recorded in his visions and revelations, (2 Cor 11:32-33 through 2 Cor 12:1-4).

Daqq,

Thank you for taking the time to reckon the translation to the literal. This is very helpful.


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[God's Truth]

GT,

I agree with you on the point of loving your neighbor.

However, the Law causes us to Judge ourselves and others.

The new law tells us to do the same.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law of perfection.

Obeying Jesus makes us perfect.

By recognizing He alone is perfect, we can Love ourselves in our imperfection. This allows others to be loved by us despite their imperfections.

You have to speak what the scriptures say and not make up what you think it says.

We are to repent of our sins to Jesus and have faith that his blood washes us clean and makes us perfect. That means we no longer have to do the righteous requirements of the law TO CLEAN OURSELVES before we can worship God at the temple.

These words seem simple, but the Law and Prophets hang on them.

You did not give the scripture for that. You mix up scriptures in any way you like.

I understand you believe I am a raging heretic,

Don't lie about what I said or believe.

and you have been kind in expressing your displeasure with my words.

Are you a hypocrite? Have you not also been expressing your displeasure with my words?

I only know that when I judge myself by the law, I tend to judge others by it too. I am intimate with personal experience that only God is Perfect, and in this, I am joined to unconditional Love that bares no judgment.

You keep repeating that falseness. Show it from the scriptures, and I will show from the scriptures that we are to make judgments.

 

[God's Truth]

GT,

I respect your words.

But the old law never made a single person clean.

Are you kidding? God said to do it to atone for their sins.

That is what God told them to do and they had to do it.

Why are you afraid to call it what it is?

It is RIGHTEOUS WORKS called PURIFICATION works.

They were various washings and the sacrifice of animals, to make the people outwardly clean.

Hebrews 9:13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

 

[jamie]

By recognizing He alone is perfect, we can Love ourselves in our imperfection.

Is "imperfection" another word for missing the mark?

We must have contempt for our imperfections. A messenger told Daniel, "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 NASB)

We can have contempt for our imperfections now or later. Now results in the better resurrection. (Revelation 20:6)

 

[God's Truth]

Is "imperfection" another word for missing the mark?

We must have contempt for our imperfections. A messenger told Daniel, "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 NASB)

We can have contempt for our imperfections now or later. Now results in the better resurrection. (Revelation 20:6)

The way you judge others you will be judged.


You should be more careful in the way that you judge others, such as the way you falsely judge me.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

GT,

I agree with you on the point of loving your neighbor.

However, the Law causes us to Judge ourselves and others.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law of perfection.

By recognizing He alone is perfect, we can Love ourselves in our imperfection. This allows others to be loved by us despite their imperfections.

These words seem simple, but the Law and Prophets hang on them.

I understand you believe I am a raging heretic, and you have been kind in expressing your displeasure with my words.

I only know that when I judge myself by the law, I tend to judge others by it too. I am intimate with personal experience that only God is Perfect, and in this, I am joined to unconditional Love that bares no judgment.


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The new law tells us to do the same.

Luke 18:9-14Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and looked down on everyone else: 10 “Two men went up to the temple complex to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee took his stand[a] and was praying like this: ‘God, I thank You that I’m not like other people —greedy, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give a tenth[c] of everything I get.’

13 “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even raise his eyes to heaven but kept striking his chest[d] and saying, ‘God, turn Your wrath from me[e]—a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this one went down to his house justified rather than the other; because everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Matthew 9:17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

17 And no one puts[a] new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the skins burst, the wine spills out, and the skins are ruined. But they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved.”

Obeying Jesus makes us perfect.

I would agree with you, but when you say obey, you are still referring to portions of the law.

Ephesians 2:

8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift— 9

not from works, so that no one can boast.

10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

You have to speak what the scriptures say and not make up what you think it says.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law of perfection.


Matthew 5:17-20King James Version (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

He is the Perfection we require for eternal salvation.

Colossians 2:14
He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross.

Our debt of lifetime transgression of the law is gone. He is its payment.

2 Corinthians 5:21

He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

We of sin are counted sinless, by He alone who is Perfect and sinless.

https://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/search?q=2+Corinthians+5:21 Cross ref last verse.

We are to repent of our sins to Jesus and have faith that his blood washes us clean and makes us perfect. That means we no longer have to do the righteous requirements of the law TO CLEAN OURSELVES before we can worship God at the temple.

There is a difference between obedience to points of law to "wash" our selves through Jesus

and

Admitting our utter need to Jesus because we are unclean like a Lepor without His Blood and Righteousness perpetually in place of our physical state of rebellion and iniquity.

You did not give the scripture for that. You mix us scriptures in any way you like.

These words seem simple, but the Law and Prophets hang on them.

Mark 12

28 One of the scribes approached. When he heard them debating and saw that Jesus answered them well, he asked Him, “Which command is the most important of all?”

29 “This is the most important,” Jesus answered:

Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is One. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.

31 “The second is: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other command greater than these.”

32 Then the scribe said to Him, “You are right, Teacher! You have correctly said that He is One, and there is no one else except Him. 33 And to love Him with all your heart, with all your understanding, and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, is far more important than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

34 When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.

Don't lie about what I said or believe.

You said my teachings are false. I should not have erred and magnified that to heretic.

Are you a hypocrite? Have you not also been expressing your displeasure with my words?

I personally admit I struggle with hypocracy frequently. I hate hypocracy and thus default to Jesus as the perfection in my life.

He is my perfect Half, because I am not whole without Him. [emoji846]

The Counselor is the great Teacher. It is not displeasure that I find in your words. It is the pain of knowing how deeply you judge yourself before God and the knowledge that you want to help others obey because you Love Jesus.

I had stated earlier, on another thread, that to know others and love them as they are, we must know ourself and love ourself as we are.

Jesus Loved all while all were in sin. Jesus called all as sinners.

Romans 5:8

8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ Died for us.

Matthew 22:

“Then he told his slaves, ‘The banquet is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go to where the roads exit the city and invite everyone you find to the banquet.’ 10 So those slaves went out on the roads and gathered everyone they found,

both evil and good.

The wedding banquet was filled with guests. 11 But when the king came in to view the guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed for a wedding. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.

Isaiah 61:10-62:3Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

10 I greatly rejoice in the Lord,
I exult in my God;
for He has clothed me with the garments of salvation
and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness,
as a groom wears a turban
and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the earth produces its growth,
and as a garden enables what is sown to spring up,
so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise
to spring up before all the nations.

You keep repeating that falseness. Show it from the scriptures, and I will show from the scriptures that we are to make judgments.

I only know that when I judge myself by the law, I tend to judge others by it too. I am intimate with personal experience that only God is Perfect, and in this, I am joined to unconditional Love that bares no judgment.The

2 Cor. 3

14 but their minds were closed. For to this day, at the reading of the old covenant, the same veil remains; it is not lifted, because it is set aside only in Christ. 15 Even to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts, 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Are you kidding? God said to do it to atone for their sins.

That is what God told them to do and they had to do it.

Why are you afraid to call it what it is?

It is RIGHTEOUS WORKS called PURIFICATION works.

They were various washings and the sacrifice of animals, to make the people outwardly clean.

Hebrews 9:13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

The entire Law is a ceremonial work

You have believed that Jesus only fulfilled the atonement part of the Law GT.

Moses is indivisible.


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[daqq]

I cannot force myself to read what you write. You are dishonest.

The way you judge others you will be judged.


You should be more careful in the way that you judge others, such as the way you falsely judge me.

And therefore I know by your fruit that you are a dishonest hypocrite for labeling me dishonest without a legitimate reason. I showed what was true at the start, from the scripture, which you misquoted and misinterpreted; but you only care about the name you have chosen, boasted, and vaunted for yourself in this forum, "God's Truth", and therefore anyone who might be able to show from the scripture that you have not spoken "God's Truth" must be silenced or relegated to the trash bin. In the doctrine of Yeshua therefore murders do proceed from your mouth, just as he says, which according to the Testimony of Yeshua have come forth from your heart; and you therefore clearly defile yourself with your own tongue, which again, lights aflame the fire of Gehenna, and yet you cannot tame it.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

And therefore I know by your fruit that you are a dishonest hypocrite for labeling me dishonest without a legitimate reason. I showed what was true at the start, from the scripture, which you misquoted and misinterpreted; but you only care about the name you have chosen, boasted, and vaunted for yourself in this forum, "God's Truth", and therefore anyone who might be able to show from the scripture that you have not spoken "God's Truth" must be silenced or relegated to the trash bin. In the doctrine of Yeshua therefore murders do proceed from your mouth, just as he says, which according to the Testimony of Yeshua have come forth from your heart; and you therefore clearly defile yourself with your own tongue, which again, lights aflame the fire of Gehenna, and yet you cannot tame it.

Daqq,

Go easy.

I understand, but this is not the tone of discussion.

We will lose harmony and peace if we speak from frustration.

I want this to be civilized all the way through.

I'm getting on to myself and all here.

Where there is condemnation, no sharing can safely take place.


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