1 of 5 for GT to Debate (The entire book of Galatians)

God's Truth

New member
YOU are the one speaking against the truth because the Torah never told anyone to "go after someone's eye, tooth, hand, foot" as you just said.

The Old Testament does say so.


Exodus 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Deuteronomy 19:21
"Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

And this is indeed what you said because you said that Yeshua changed it; therefore you show that you believe that is what it says. What it says according to the INTERPRETATION of the Master Teacher Yeshua is to go after YOUR OWN evil eye, evil right hand, evil foot, and anything else that is evil among your own members of your house-body-temple, (this is the will of Elohim). And don't forget, that little member, the little horn tongue which lights aflame the fire of Gehenna. :crackup:

Jesus brings up the old law about eye for eye and tooth for a tooth AND THEN SAYS not to resist an evil man but turn the other cheek. You have completely skipped over that and went to the scriptures about about stop sinning with our eye, foot, and hand.
 

God's Truth

New member
The Law of Moses cannot be chopped up. ______said Jamie. To which you replied______


Jesus said no more eye for eye, foot for foot, hand for hand, etc.

You are saying that an eye for eye and tooth for tooth was part of the law. It was never part of the law.

It was never a part of the law?

What is this:

Exodus 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Deuteronomy 19:21
"Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
 

God's Truth

New member
I do believe the scriptures. You made a claim that the scriptures don't make.

Exodus 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Deuteronomy 19:21
"Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
Exodus 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Deuteronomy 19:21
"Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

That's not the claim you made. That's the law of retaliation and it concerns the judicial system of Israel. That law never stated that people take the law into their own hands and remove the eye and teeth of people who have removed yours.

As I said, you are adding to the law that which never existed.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
It was never a part of the law?

What is this:

Exodus 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Deuteronomy 19:21
"Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

It's the law of retaliation. It was written for the judicial system of Israel.... not to everyday ordinary people. You make unwarranted assumptions.
 

God's Truth

New member
1) The woman caught in adultery was alone but the Torah commands that both her and the one she committed the act with be put to death, (in the same sense as Adam which is not the same as capital punishment). However, since she was caught in the act, why was the man she slept with not there? Yeshua therefore had no reason to overturn the Law as you suggest because the Torah was not being followed to begin with.

I can hardly believe that a person can just make things up the way you just did.

2) Either those who had brought her to Yeshua held a literal view of stoning or they were testing Yeshua to see if he himself held a literal view of stoning. He responded, as he did, saying, "Let him with no sin cast the first stone", and this proves beyond doubt that they misunderstood stoning according to the SPIRIT of Torah because they did not have the nerve to literally physically begin stoning her though that was their interpretation.

You just make up your own stories. The Jews were told to stone people and they did. Stephen was stoned to death by the Jews, and even Paul was stoned by the Jews.

3) The answer from Yeshua to the woman is very similar to the answer from the chief Kohen in the Infancy Gospel of Yaakob, (James), when Maryam and Yoseph return from the desert without sin, for he says, "If YHWH Elohim has not condemned you of sin then neither do I." This has ramifications to this story in John, (which is also hotly disputed as for whether it is even original to the text in case you did not know), but since I know of no one here that interests themselves in such non-canonical works there is probably no need to pursue those ramifications, (just thought I might should mention it just in case).
I am not impressed with you trying to use Hebrew names or about other books you read. Learning Hebrew and Greek does not make you holier, and it has nothing to do with understanding God's Word.

God does not give understanding to those who learn another language. God gives understanding to those who obey Him.
As for stoning you ought to know how sharp words can cut much deeper than skin and pierce the heart; I have seen you take a hail of sharp words like fiery stones many times over in these forum boards, (and sometimes you appear to have deserved it, lol).

I don't deserve it. You are right though about stones being thrown at me, but I am wearing the full Armour of God.

People are being stoned on a daily basis around here with all the modern day self-righteous Pharisees running around. There is a story about stoning called "Once upon a Bar Mitzvah", (about a boy named Balal and his closest friend Baal who was like unto his own soul), which might help to understand "stoning" and "putting to death" in light of the SPIRIT of Deuteronomy 13. The same thinking has similarly already been indirectly addressed by way of Deuteronomy 13, (as referenced in the Matthew 10 quote previously above), which speaks of false prophets and dreamers of dreams, (or more likely dream entities who may appear in dreams teaching falsehoods and lies to lead us astray). The Deuteronomy passage clearly begins by warning us that dreams can become trials and tests to see whether or not we love our heavenly Father with all of our heart and soul, (Deuteronomy 13:1-3).

You admit to seeing others attack me and then you laugh about it. The worst part is that you seen it and did you speak up to them and tell them they were doing wrong?
 

Nameless.In.Grace

BANNED
Banned
I'm interjecting this. Exodus 21:

23*And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24*Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25*Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.



Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 

God's Truth

New member
The term used today in jurisprudence is proportional punishment.

Jesus was teaching the new law of not paying back like for like. No more eye for eye, tooth for tooth, foot for foot.

Jesus said if someone hits you on your cheek, turn your other cheek---not hit them back on their cheek.
 

daqq

Well-known member
The Old Testament does say so.


Exodus 21:24
eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him.

Deuteronomy 19:21
"Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.



Jesus brings up the old law about eye for eye and tooth for a tooth AND THEN SAYS not to resist an evil man but turn the other cheek. You have completely skipped over that and went to the scriptures about about stop sinning with our eye, foot, and hand.


By reversing the truth and ignoring what Yeshua actually said you are now implying that one should turn the other cheek to devils and the Satan because that is how Yeshua applies the passage you have misconstrued for lack of understanding. This also comes through an understanding of the Prophets who likewise expound the Torah in all their writings. You are to show no mercy to the enemy: soul for soul, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot, cut them off and choke them out before they cut you off and choke the seed of the Word out of you. Paul likewise tells you that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. This all speaks of supernal Torah, the Spirit of Torah, The Word whom you claim to know. Therefore when it comes to your literal physical fellow human beings Yeshua says to love your neighbor as yourself, just as the Torah also says, (i.e. turn the other cheek). You have exchanged the supernal for the carnal because you understand neither the teachings of Yeshua nor the Torah.


I can hardly believe that a person can just make things up the way you just did.



You just make up your own stories. The Jews were told to stone people and they did. Stephen was stoned to death by the Jews, and even Paul was stoned by the Jews.


You've been deceived: show me were Stephanos was buried and I will show you where the same is not in the Greek text but added by the translators. Physical death is not even recognized for the most part in the New Testament because it is COMMANDED to be so by Yeshua himself and all of the Apostolic writers OBEY his commandments and especially in their writings.


I am not impressed with you trying to use Hebrew names or about other books you read. Learning Hebrew and Greek does not make you holier, and it has nothing to do with understanding God's Word.

God does not give understanding to those who learn another language. God gives understanding to those who obey Him.


φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν


I don't deserve it. You are right though about stones being thrown at me, but I am wearing the full Armour of God.


You now admit that you understood what I meant by "stoning" right here in this forum and yet you deny it in your own doctrine and understanding of the supernal and holy scripture of a GOD who is SPIRIT. Tisk, tisk . . . :crackup:


You admit to seeing others attack me and then you laugh about it. The worst part is that you seen it and did you speak up to them and tell them they were doing wrong?


Who says I was laughing about that? You ignored what was said about that little horn tongue that lights aflame the fire of Gehenna, (as the scripture says in James 3:5-9). As far as defending you there is no way you will ever convince me that you cannot adequately do that for yourself, and besides, again, you ignored what I said about how sometimes you appear to have deserved it, (yes, lol).
 

God's Truth

New member
By reversing the truth and ignoring what Yeshua actually said you are now implying that one should turn the other cheek to devils and the Satan because that is how Yeshua applies the passage you have misconstrued for lack of understanding. This also comes through an understanding of the Prophets who likewise expound the Torah in all their writings. You are to show no mercy to the enemy: soul for soul, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot, cut them off and choke them out before they cut you off and choke the seed of the Word out of you. Paul likewise tells you that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. This all speaks of supernal Torah, the Spirit of Torah, The Word whom you claim to know. Therefore when it comes to your literal physical fellow human beings Yeshua says to love your neighbor as yourself, just as the Torah also says, (i.e. turn the other cheek). You have exchanged the supernal for the carnal because you understand neither the teachings of Yeshua nor the Torah.





You've been deceived: show me were Stephanos was buried and I will show you where the same is not in the Greek text but added by the translators. Physical death is not even recognized for the most part in the New Testament because it is COMMANDED to be so by Yeshua himself and all of the Apostolic writers OBEY his commandments and especially in their writings.





φασκοντες ειναι σοφοι εμωρανθησαν





You now admit that you understood what I meant by "stoning" right here in this forum and yet you deny it in your own doctrine and understanding of the supernal and holy scripture of a GOD who is SPIRIT. Tisk, tisk . . . :crackup:





Who says I was laughing about that? You ignored what was said about that little horn tongue that lights aflame the fire of Gehenna, (as the scripture says in James 3:5-9). As far as defending you there is no way you will ever convince me that you cannot adequately do that for yourself, and besides, again, you ignored what I said about how sometimes you appear to have deserved it, (yes, lol).

I cannot force myself to read what you write. You are dishonest.
 

God's Truth

New member
I'm not. With regard to the law Jesus magnified it, made it full in its application.

You're the one meddling with the law, not Jesus.

Hands off.

You got your hands on the old and new law and you are going against the Truth.

Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
 

daqq

Well-known member
I'm interjecting this. Exodus 21:

23*And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24*Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25*Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using TheologyOnline mobile app

The whole passage is full of things related and they are supernal in meaning. Paul teaches the meaning of some of these things also but most of mainstream Christianity simply ignores those teachings and pretend that Paul abolished Torah for them. Example from the same passage:

Exodus 21:32
32 If the ox gore a man-servant or a maid-servant, there shall be given unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.


Does Elohim take care for oxen? Or does He rather say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes no doubt these things are written in the Torah of Moshe. And you know what the thirty shekels of silver is all about, right? So what happens if a "wild ox" or a "bull of Bashan" butts at you with her horns and you retaliate by striking back? Should you expect your Master to be given thirty shekels of silver when you already evened out the score? But if you turn the other cheek you will be storing up heavenly money, treasure in heaven, just as Yeshua says, (and he counsels us to buy gold tried in the fire from him too). And what did Yeshua do when Yudas betrayed him with a kiss for thirty pieces of silver? He walked his doctrine and turned the other cheek.

1 Corinthians 9:9-10 KJV
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn.
Doth God take care for oxen?
10
Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

How many here are actually willing to believe Paul and accept that this is written for their own sake?

Deuteronomy 25:4 KJV
4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.


He that has two ears let him buy a sword; he that has an ear let him hear:
O ye wild bulls and fatlings of Bashan! :chuckle:
 
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