Works, Salvation, Merit

heir

TOL Subscriber
no i don't acknowledge that and i don't acknowledge a list of additional conditions. you're focused on sin, forgiveness and repentance. have fun, i'm way past that - :wave:
Good for you! We are partakers by the gospel, not any of the things csuguy or any other religious, deceitful worker wants to require of us.

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Then you are ignoring Christ's own teachings on the matter in favor of your preconceived views. You can lead a horse to water...

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Or you can understand it in the same sense as the matter of forgiveness - it is a condition/requirement of salvation, but you by no means earn it.
NOT OURS!

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Christ also taught obedience to the Mosaic Law.

How are you doing with that one?
just like all the other religious posers today who say and do not!

Matthew 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Matthew 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Can works save us or is it by faith or a combination of the two? I believe we are saved by faith that produces works and I will give my reason why this is so. Jesus often told us to repent and believe in the gospel for the forgiveness of sins. In all the gospels it does tell us to repent, meaning to change our heart concerning sin, and to do good. But nowhere does it say that simply doing that saves us, but a combination of repentance and belief in Jesus work that saves us. However when I think of 'adding' to Gods word I think that I have to do something like go out of my way to feed the homeless to be saved. Does doing good things remove the sin from your conscience or is it faith in Jesus work? That is where I think we should draw the line concerning faith and works. Jesus came to call the wicked not the righteous after all. Don't try to be good to be saved, do good because of the holy spirit working in you through faith.

we are saved by faith; by grace - believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Jesus died for our sins, was buried and rose the third day. nothing else can gain salvation, which means nothing else is required -

John 3:16 KJV - John 3:18 KJV - John 3:36 KJV - Acts 16:31 KJV -


we are baptized now by the Holy Spirit which is automatic when we believe 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 and 3,4 KJV -
 

Jamie Gigliotti

New member
Jamie, you are such a religious fanatic that you can't even see straight.

Some of things that Jesus taught while on earth were general in nature and some were not. But you're too steeped in your religion to be able to make sense of that. Too bad for you.

Conecting with Christ is not a religion, it is spiritual, it is personal, it is intimacy with Our Father, His Son, filled with the Holy Spirit. I know what it is like to be in Him in love, prayer, worship, submission reaping the awesomeness of God's glorious presence and to run from Him in my pride and disobedience and foolishness with negative consequences every time. He's teaching me to grow in Him, in trust of Him, in knowledge of Him, in intimacy with Him to bear fruit in my life with His light, His love.

If you think it's good to rationalize away His words and your choices and my experiences with Jesus; I'm praying for you.

May you grow in intimacy and His love and light and image, by His grace and your submission to Him for His Glory. And may you one day hear Him say, "Welcome good and faithful servant" in Jesus name Amen
 

Zeke

Well-known member
In so far as it is applicable I certainly support following the Law, though I am imperfect and have been known to sin. Of course, there are a couple important points when speaking of the Law and its fulfillment. First and foremost: Paul and the early church maintained a distinction between God's Law and the Mosaic Law and the traditions of men. God's Law, or the Spirit of the Law, is what is important. Under the New Covenant, God's Law is written on our very hearts. By means of study of the Mosaic Law and the Prophets, along with prayer and a sincere heart for God and truth, one may come to know God's Law.

Secondly: the Mosaic Law was given to the Jews, it is the Old Covenant. While this Covenant has not gone away - the Jewish People are still God's People, he is still their God, as per their covenant - we Gentiles are not required or expected to adopt it as such. No physical circumcision required, but rather circumcision of the heart. We are to follow God's Law, the Spirit of the Law, but we are not required to follow the letter of the Law. Hence Paul teaches that we are Spiritual Jews, part of Spiritual Israel.

Thirdly: The New Covenant did not toss out the Old, but the Old still exists alongside the New - at least for the time being. When the judgement is complete and the heavens and earth are remade, then I believe the Old Testament will be gone.

Yet he also said there is neither Jew or Gentile, Male or Female in Christ, plus the historic so call OT and NT has always been just a metaphor for the two natures and two birth, the Divine one being in Adam, symbolic dramatized stories that teach these inward truths, Galatians 4:24-28, Luke 17:20-21, Romans 5-7, Gen 32:30, etc.....
 

Right Divider

Body part
Conecting with Christ is not a religion, it is spiritual, it is personal, it is intimacy with Our Father, His Son, filled with the Holy Spirit. I know what it is like to be in Him in love, prayer, worship, submission reaping the awesomeness of God's glorious presence and to run from Him in my pride and disobedience and foolishness with negative consequences every time. He's teaching me to grow in Him, in trust of Him, in knowledge of Him, in intimacy with Him to bear fruit in my life with His light, His love.

If you think it's good to rationalize away His words and your choices and my experiences with Jesus; I'm praying for you.

May you grow in intimacy and His love and light and image, by His grace and your submission to Him for His Glory. And may you one day hear Him say, "Welcome good and faithful servant" in Jesus name Amen
Jamie, you're the one that has a problem with understanding.

You ignore many verses to make your own "story" true.
Joh 1:10-13 KJV He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Do you know who "His own" were?
Joh 1:29-31 KJV The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (30) This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. (31) And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
John explains that he was water baptizing so that Jesus "should be made manifest to ISRAEL".

Jesus also made mention of His mission TO ISRAEL in Matthew 15:24, but folks like you also ignore that.
 

God's Truth

New member
So are you pressing on to perfection, from Glory to Glory by the Spirit and your sowing to please Him; working out your salvation in fear and trembling, perfecting holiness in the fear of God? Are you perfected? Are you a slave to God or sin?

We need him do what He asks. You are powerless to do good without Him. Obeying the law is impossible with the Spirit's agape love in us allowing to fulfill the law of love.

Does your pride insist that you have power that no-one else has? God gives us power for Godliness at our surrender to Him. You can do no good apart from Him. Without Him we only puff up our ego and pride.

I am obeying the words of God Himself. How do you ever get it is without Jesus if it is Jesus' words that I am obeying?

You need to think harder about what you are saying and what you believe.

Jesus is the truth and the life and the way. If you do not obey what Jesus says, you will not receive the Holy Spirit, the kingdom of heaven, which is all eternal life with God.
 

God's Truth

New member
Can works save us or is it by faith or a combination of the two? I believe we are saved by faith that produces works and I will give my reason why this is so. Jesus often told us to repent and believe in the gospel for the forgiveness of sins. In all the gospels it does tell us to repent, meaning to change our heart concerning sin, and to do good. But nowhere does it say that simply doing that saves us, but a combination of repentance and belief in Jesus work that saves us. However when I think of 'adding' to Gods word I think that I have to do something like go out of my way to feed the homeless to be saved. Does doing good things remove the sin from your conscience or is it faith in Jesus work? That is where I think we should draw the line concerning faith and works. Jesus came to call the wicked not the righteous after all. Don't try to be good to be saved, do good because of the holy spirit working in you through faith.

People misunderstand about no works. The works the people used to have to do are the ceremonial works. Those works no longer save.

The Jews worked at making themselves clean, just so they could go to the temple where God's Spirit was. No one has to work anymore at making themselves clean just to worship God because faith in Jesus' blood makes us clean.

Leviticus 15:32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of semen, for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who has sexual relations with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.
 

God's Truth

New member
You are the #1 poser on TOL. :first:

All because I say obey Jesus?

Look, there is power in His Word.

Are you having doubts and fears?

Just do what God says.

What else do we have?

Jesus says don't cry just believe, and that is what I am going to do.

What are you going to do?
 

Right Divider

Body part
All because I say obey Jesus?

Look, there is power in His Word.

Are you having doubts and fears?

Just do what God says.

What else do we have?

Jesus says don't cry just believe, and that is what I am going to do.

What are you going to do?
You are a show-off, not a believer.

Why is it that you will NEVER tell us what it is that YOU DO to obey?
 

God's Truth

New member
You are a show-off, not a believer.
A show off who is telling you how to have what I have.

I am a giver.

Why is it that you will NEVER tell us what it is that YOU DO to obey?

I do tell you what I obey. You must not have been paying attention.

I wanted to be a child of God so much so that I resorted to obeying Jesus.

Jesus says to become as a little child. That is about humbling yourself.

Jesus says to forgive others so that we can be forgiven.

I forgave those in my life who have done me wrong.

Jesus says to repent of your sins.

I thought of all the sins I was doing, and all the sins I have ever done, and I asked God to forgive me for it.

I called on Jesus to help me, and he helped me.
 
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