Works, Salvation, Merit

[Interplanner]

You both need to cool off and define your terms. Believers do need to stand firm in the faith, not moved from the hope (Col 1). If we deny him, he will deny us.

 

[glorydaz]

With Christ there is the initial moment of genuine faith and trust and repentance (turning to God, seeking forgiveness), where the weight of shame and His overwhelming love and presence comes upon us.

We seek, He draws by His Spirit, He draws by His Spirit, we seek; and at that intitial moment of turning to Jesus it is an act of the will, we choose, but by no means earned it as undoubtedly His grace was involved throughout. Some will say that's it story over. If you've met Jesus if you turned to Him You are now saved(have eternal life, forever, it can never be lost).

That would be true. Eternal means eternal and being SEALED unto the day of redemption by the Spirit is a down payment by Almighty God.

Ephesians 1:13-14KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.​

But scripture says otherwise. We love the way He loves by surrender to Jesus, by being filled with His Spirit, by loving by His Agape love, not just our families or those we deem,worthy, but everyone, the world, like God does.

The only way we can love like God does is for Him to love through us. Love is a fruit of the Spirit...not something we can manufacture ourselves.

We must choose to sow to Please His Spirit, (Galatians 6:8) become dead to sin and slaves to God ( Romans 6 )and put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit (Romans 8) to have eternal life in Christ as through continued faith and repentance the work of the Holy Spirit and our surrender to him the character of Christ is formed in us. Undoubtedly through this process good results in us and through us as His light reaches this world through us.

Indeed it is the work of the Spirit in us. He causes us to will and do His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

"And we all with unveiled face, be holding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image, from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18

This seems as daunting as Jesus said that the path is narrow and only few will find it.
But with God all things are possible and through Him we can do all things because He strenghthens us (Phillipians 4:13).

It's only daunting when we try so hard to do it ourselves we get in His way. That way there will be no boasting and all our trust will be in He who performs the work in us.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

Without a doubt eternal life in Christ is dependent upon Him, His grace, His love, His Spirit, but this unequivocally does not remove the burden placed upon us by Him, as continued acts of our will to submit to Him. He gives us will to accept the grace He offers. Are we going to give him our selves in increasing measure or not?

"For the one who sows to his flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."

We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us. Romans 8:9.

 

[Interplanner]

Actually, some people find that justification is a more eye-opening or shocking or encouraging or home-coming message than their first transformation ever was. That's because it is actually outside of their experience. We see the words God and experience in the same sentence and just assume it could never fade. Or that it is the end all. But it does, relative to the towering stature and brilliant light of justification which is outside of our experience, though of intimate importance. Because it forever deals with sin as a debt, which we will have (and have more of) as time goes by.

 

[heir]

You both need to cool off and define your terms. Believers do need to stand firm in the faith, not moved from the hope (Col 1). If we deny him, he will deny us.

What a mess!

 

[God's Truth]

You both need to cool off and define your terms. Believers do need to stand firm in the faith, not moved from the hope (Col 1). If we deny him, he will deny us.

Are you telling me I need to cool off? If you are, then you need to stop falsely judging me.

As for defining our terms, I take special care to explain my beliefs.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

GT preaches another Jesus! Don't let what she has to say corrupt your minds from the simplicity that is in Christ!

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

She is an enemy of the cross!

Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)



GT denies that salvation if by grace through the faith and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ in our place (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)!

This is GT's perverted gospel



She believes not the glorious gospel of Christ (the gospel by which we are saved 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and is blinded because of it (2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV). She has nothing edifying to say to anyone here (Ephesians 4:16 KJV).

Yep

 

[God's Truth]

You cannot approach God on your own with your "obey every word" (which is impossible) perverted gospel (which is no good news at all).

God says to search for Him and we will find Him, if we search for Him with all our heart.

We search for God by getting Jesus' teachings, and we search with all our heart by obeying those teachings. After we do that we will find Him.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Now what are you going to do?

Nothing a member of the Body of Christ can do or not do can separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39 KJV). Your statement above is just more damning testimony that you don't trust God.

Jesus warns us for a reason.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

That would be true. Eternal means eternal and being SEALED unto the day of redemption by the Spirit is a down payment by Almighty God.

Ephesians 1:13-14KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.​

The only way we can love like God does is for Him to love through us. Love is a fruit of the Spirit...not something we can manufacture ourselves.



Indeed it is the work of the Spirit in us. He causes us to will and do His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13







It's only daunting when we try so hard to do it ourselves we get in His way. That way there will be no boasting and all our trust will be in He who performs the work in us.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

We are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in us. Romans 8:9.

Why then does Paul say stand in Ephesians 6 if it is not possible to fall? Ignoring this plays right into the hand of the Devil.

It is hard for us to let go of ourselves and surrender. Surrender is not about trying, it's about dying to the self. One of the biggest inhibitors to this are the lies that ingratiate the self instead of encouraging the necessity of this:
"Assuming that you have heard about Him and were taught in Him, as the truth is in Jesus, to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the Spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." Ephesians 4:22-24
Obviously this takes faith and trust in Christ, fellowship with Him and the Holy Spirit. You can't be in Christ without having Christ. He works but does not force. He is not a robot maker. We must surrender to Him.

 

[Krsto]

I have come to the conclusion that all that is needed for salvation is repentance from wickedness - if a person is wicked. Most are not.

Faith in Jesus was added to the equation to bring people to repentance by demonstrating God's love and providing a graphic visual to the effect that if one repents he will be forgiven, and then to provide power to overcome sin, whether those sins are wickedness which leads to damnation or other sins that so easily beset us.

Salvation in the scriptures is "restoration to wholeness" and a person that is whole (not wicked) will enter eternal life. All sin causes spiritual death in the hear and now to some degree and so all sin causes lack of wholeness to some degree so all people need salvation to some degree, if we understand what the Greek word sozo means.

We don't "earn" salvation by doing good works, but a good person does not need to receive eternal life because he already has it.

This is the verse that has rocked my Evangelical boat:

Lk. 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27 He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"
28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."

 

[KingdomRose]

A false-dilemma is usually presented to us whenever we speak of the relationship of works to salvation: either Christ's sacrifice is sufficient and our sins have been paid for without us having to do anything, or else Christ's sacrifice was insufficient and one must earn their salvation. Faith-only folks defend the first and criticize anything else as if it were the second - as if people were trying to earn their way into heaven. They do not consider the other option: that while we do not earn salvation, that we do not earn forgiveness, there are requirements to God's gifts.

Let us consider the gift of forgiveness. In a parable of a king settling his accounts (Matthew 18:21-35) Jesus speaks of a man who owed 10,000 talents but was unable to pay the debt. He is forgiven this debt by the king. However, this same man is owed 100 denarii by another who cannot pay him back. Rather than show him the same mercy he has recieved, he has the other man put in prison until he can pay back his debt. Upon hearing of this, the king revokes his forgiveness from the first man and has him thrown in prison until he can pay back all of his debts.

There are two important points to this story. First it makes clear that there is at least one requirement to the gift of forgiveness: you must forgive others their sins when they repent. If you don't, then neither will God forgive you. Secondly, the story points out the vast difference in debt that the first man had to the king versus what the first man was owed by another. 10,000 talents vs 100 denarii. So one cannot say if the first man had forgiven the second that that he thereby earned his own forgiveness.

And this is the key to understanding why it can be said that there are requirements to salvation, but that we do not earn salvation. God's blessings and promises to us are so much greater than what is required of us. God forgives us all of our sins when we repent, adopts us as his sons and daughters, and makes us co-heirs with Christ of the Kingdom. He asks us to forgive those who repent. Christ gave his life so to reconcile us to God and to give us eternal life. We are asked to carry our cross daily and follow him, to use our lives to do God's will.

God's gifts have requirements - but so great is the gift in comparison to the requirements that we cannot even begin to say that we have somehow earned it.

Yes, what you say is right on the money. Jesus never even hinted that we don't have to do anything after we start following him. As a matter of fact, he said a lot about doing things. If someone wanted to bother to look these verses up, they all show that Christ's followers are expected to follow his example:

Matthew 5:16
" 7:21
" 10:22
" 12:50
" 16:24
Luke 9:23
" 13:24
John 13:15
" 14:15
" 15:8
Acts 26:20
Romans 2:6
2 Corinthians 4:10
Ephesians 2:10
I Timothy 2:10
Titus 2:7, 14
" 3:8
James 2:14,17,18,20,26
I Peter 2:12,21