ECT What's MAD?

[Doom]

They were all justified by faith, alone, in their belief that God would provide the "Seed" first promised to Eve in Genesis 3:15.

That's not part of your claim. Let's stick to your claim that they knew Jesus was going to die for our sins.

The Incarnation of the Christ revealed how this promise was fulfilled, when Jesus destroyed the powers of the devil: Hebrews 2:14-18

That does not say anything about those in the OT knowing anything about Jesus dying for our sins.

Can you please provide evidence that everyone in the OT or the Gospels knew that Jesus was going to die for their sins.

 

[Nick M]

Consider what Doom said above: the Galatians were ALREADY saved, yet Paul cursed - twice - those who would preach to them a false gospel.

I have to share with you what one of our members posted regarding old languages which he can read, having studied them in college.

Accursed is literally, cut off. And we know what that means. They are cut off and tossed in the fire. So it isn't a curse in a normal sense of being punished for a time. He said let them go to hell.

 

[ARMcCarley]

Which version is the correct one?

Not KJV 1611, revised version is fine. You will have to study each translation. The NKJV for instance is a transliteration so I wouldn't recommend that one.

 

[musterion]

So are you saying that obedience to the law saved them?

Define "saved" first.

Then tell us what would have happened to an Israelite who told the priesthood to pound sand and refused to do any of the prescribed sacrifices or feasts.

 

[Nang]

Which version is the correct one?

Read Matthew 4:4 and John 17:17.

Any translation that stands up under the scrutiny of the study of the original Hebrew and Greek languages, is safe and sound for our edification.

Jesus taught from the Hebrew, and Paul taught from the Greek, and the messages are in accord; preaching one Gospel of Grace to all kinds of sinners; revealing by inspiration of God, the divine pardon found in His provisional sacrifice unto salvation of the soul.

II Peter 1:19-21

 

[musterion]

I have to share with you what one of our members posted regarding old languages which he can read, having studied them in college.

Accursed is literally, cut off. And we know what that means. They are cut off and tossed in the fire. So it isn't a curse in a normal sense of being punished for a time. He said let them go to hell.

Yep. Which is exactly the meaning the Catholic church uses when it threatens members with anathema.

 

[Nick M]

The Bible does not always say the same thing. There are things that differ.

He tells people that Jesus is the Christ. So really he randomly picks and chooses his doctrine. Like works so he can boast.

 

[musterion]

He's backed off his claim that submission to water baptism (his version of it, anyway) is a deciding factor in whether a believer really believes or not.

 

[Nick M]

Are you saying that everyone knew that Jesus was going to die for our sins?

Peter knew. He cut the ear off in accident. He was just trying to help him get it pierced.

 

[vfirestormv]

Define "saved" first.

Then tell us what would have happened to an Israelite who told the priesthood to pound sand and refused to do any of the prescribed sacrifices or feasts.

Saved= not going to hell, justified and no judgment passed on them.

He would have likely been stoned to death and he would likely face the judgement.
Now why? Because he did not believe God and accept the atonement for his sins. Which would be fulfilled in Christ going to the cross.

Good news is good news whether I know the ins and outs of it or not. If I am drowning and already unconscious and somebody jumps in and saves me, it was good news whether I knew who he was or what he was about to do. I am alive because of it.

 

[Nang]

That's not part of your claim. Let's stick to your claim that they knew Jesus was going to die for our sins.

That does not say anything about those in the OT knowing anything about Jesus dying for our sins.

Can you please provide evidence that everyone in the OT or the Gospels knew that Jesus was going to die for their sins.

Abraham understood God would provide a sacrificial offering, when God substituted a ram, for his offering of his son Isaac. Genesis 22:11-19

He did not know the details of crucifixion on a cross, as God's means, but he certainly understood that sin is only remitted by the shedding of blood, and all covenant promises are ratified by the death of an innocent.

As did Abel, who offered blood sacrifices to the Lord, with which the Lord was pleased. Genesis 4:1-4

Noah understood, and collected pairs of "clean" animals into the ark, so that blood sacrifices would continue, even through the judgment of the flood.

The entire tabernacle and temple ordinances, point through the animal sacrifices to the eventual "Seed" that God would provide, as the substitute in death, for the covenant children of God.

Jesus says all of the O.T. teachings, were concerning HIM. Luke 24:44-48

The only souls who did not comprehend these promises (gospel) of salvation, based upon the death of the Testator (God Himself) and the offering of innocent blood, were and are reprobates left to perish in their sins, according to the good and holy Justice of God.

 

[Doom]

Saved= not going to hell, justified and no judgment passed on them.

Close, but not really.

Saved is being transferred from death to life.

Those who are in Christ ARE saved. They ARE a new creation. They have received His life, and who they were in Adam no longer exists. They are complete in Him. They are holy, righteous, blameless, and perfected forever. Free from Law, wrath, sin and death.

 

[heir]

Only reprobate souls are left in the dark, and the gospel of redemption in Jesus Christ is withheld from them, because they love the darkness more than light. John 3:19-21; Isaiah 6:9-10

pervert



1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

No matter who you are or what you were doing while you were there, God will save you when you trust the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. If anyone tells you there is more to it than that, they are perverting the gospel of Christ (Galatians 1:8-9 KJV).

 

[Nang]

Pretty much.

We understand, Nang, why you hate that idea. It's because you don't believe there will be a Rapture. You don't believe there's any need for one because the Church has permanently replaced Israel in the plans and blessings of God. The Kingdom is here, now.

Therefore, the disp. end times view regarding a restored, redeemed nation of Israel is a MORTAL THREAT to what you believe has already happened. If our view is true, everything you've believed is wrong.

That's why you hate it so.

Now go bake something.

How condescending, of you . . . I am cooking chicken soup . . . is that good enough for you? I am even wearing an apron!

 

[musterion]

Saved= not going to hell, justified and no judgment passed on them.

Did they have the exact same concept of salvation back then as Paul did? Or do you just assume they did?

He would have likely been stoned to death and he would likely face the judgement. Now why? Because he did not believe God and accept the atonement for his sins. Which would be fulfilled in Christ going to the cross.

You mean he wouldn't be punished for rejecting Christ's death on the cross for his sins?

Good news is good news whether I know the ins and outs of it or not.

If you don't have the "ins and outs" down cold, you have no business telling others they don't, either, but that's what you've been doing since you arrived.

Do you still believe dismissing "believer's baptism" is evidence a believer really isn't a believer?

 

[heir]

Elymas the Sorcerer, Acts 13.
Nang is in every single MAD thread.

with her perverted religious, denominational stinking thinking

 

[vfirestormv]

Close, but not really.

Saved is being transferred from death to life.

Those who are in Christ ARE saved. They ARE a new creation. They have received His life, and who they were in Adam no longer exists. They are complete in Him. They are holy, righteous, blameless, and perfected forever. Free from Law, wrath, sin and death.

Yeah, saved, like this smarter guy said. Glad I was able to get it close, and then the rest of what I said...

 

[Nang]

pervert



1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

No matter who you are or what you were doing while you were there, God will save you when you trust the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. If anyone tells you there is more to it than that, they are perverting the gospel of Christ (Galatians 1:8-9 KJV).

You are calling the Holy Spirit of God a "pervert." He inspired the scriptures I posted.

Do you realize what that means?

 

[musterion]

How condescending, of you . . . I am cooking chicken soup . . . is that good enough for you? I am even wearing an apron!

Put a ribbon in your hair, too.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

with her perverted religious, denominational stinking thinking

Feverishly working to prevent anyone from seeing what the scriptures actually say.