What is the Gospel?

[Sonnet]

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul declares that this is the Gospel (at least it's a form of words that encapsulates the essence of the Gospel) that leads to salvation. Nowhere is there the slightest hint that such a form of words is reserved for the converted. Indeed, Paul even allows for those that haven't held firmly to such a message.

"By this gospel you are saved". No unbeliever reading such words has any reason to doubt the sincerity of what Paul said. Further, what he received he passed on and proceeds to recapitulate just that - what was passed on (Acts 18 is when this occurred).

In verse 11 he declares that such is what he preaches and what they, the Corinthians, believed.
Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Any attempt to limit vv.3ff for the converted entails admitting two Gospels.

 

[False Prophet]

Mothers Against Drunk driving is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is another gospel. They have another gospel and another jesus.

 

[Right Divider]

Mothers Against Drunk driving is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is another gospel. They have another gospel and another jesus.

:spam:

 

[Derf]

What you consider "Lazy"... may be enormously "Broken" ... and God seems to have a soft spot for "Broken Things"...

I'm mainly using the words of Jesus here: [Mat 25:26 NKJV]
"But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.'"

I think this is definitely where "religious" types are implicated--these are the ones that have the truth and bury it in the ground, such that it can't be used to find the "Broken Things"

But I also see my own laziness. How often do I see someone in need and don't help? More than I care to admit.

 

[Derf]

He also says, "Such were some of you."

Paul teaches that those who have been created in Christ Jesus are new creatures (all their sins (past, present, and future) are forgiven when they believe). All things are new..... 2 Corinthians 5:17 We are not left to fight hard with our flesh. We are to reckon ourselves dead to sin. That is an act of faith that we can witness come true. Our former "fight" against our flesh was a result of being under the law for righteousness.



Yeah, except non-believers don't know what God's love looks like, so we can't concern ourselves with their judgment on the matter. They think it's telling people how wonderful they are. Giving to others is done for all to see, instead of where none can see. So, the world assumes if they don't see it, it doesn't exist. Can't win for losing when dealing with the world.



Believing in God and loving sin can't exist on the same coin, so in that respect a change of mind (repentance) is a part of the "faith coin". The problem with using that analogy, though, is how non-believers use it to support their error of doing things in order to be saved. That they have to DO SOMETHING other than believe in order to be saved. It becomes a work they can glory in.

Same with the idea of obedience. It gets changed to a work in order to earn salvation, rather than the outworking of faith that you're talking about. That's why, IMO, we need to stress that the "obedience" is not a result of our self-effort. "Trust and Obey"....one of my favourites is celebrating the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH. Anything we do outside of resting and trusting in the Lord is to be "excluded" by the very law of faith.



I have a feeling, Derf, that you don't see just how faithful you have been. If you were seeing what you have done for the Lord, you'd be seeing things done through self-effort - times you went before the Lord instead of waiting for Him to do the performing.

Our rewards will come and it's supposed to be a surprise. When did I, Lord? He even gives us a reward for merely waiting while He performs the good work in us. Amazing Grace.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

Amen and amen! Good post, GD.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I'm mainly using the words of Jesus here: [Mat 25:26 NKJV]
"But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.'"

I think this is definitely where "religious" types are implicated--these are the ones that have the truth and bury it in the ground, such that it can't be used to find the "Broken Things"

But I also see my own laziness. How often do I see someone in need and don't help? More than I care to admit.

What kind of help?

 

[Derf]

What kind of help?

Depends on the need, I suppose. I don't see Christ helping others by giving them a gospel presentation. Rather He usually heals their diseases and casts out their demons. I'm not proficient at either of those things. But if indeed we are to see Him in others that are in prison or sick or hungry or naked (Matt 25:40-41), it's fairly obvious what to do about it--visit, feed, or clothe them; even just a cool cup of water might be a help (Matt 10:42).

Any of these things could be considered "Loving thy neighbor as thyself."

Why do you ask?




P.S. I don't want to downplay the gospel presentation. I'm just wondering if we are letting the gospel get in the way of the gospel sometimes.

 

[Derf]

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.

By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul declares that this is the Gospel (at least it's a form of words that encapsulates the essence of the Gospel) that leads to salvation. Nowhere is there the slightest hint that such a form of words is reserved for the converted. Indeed, Paul even allows for those that haven't held firmly to such a message.

"By this gospel you are saved". No unbeliever reading such words has any reason to doubt the sincerity of what Paul said. Further, what he received he passed on and proceeds to recapitulate just that - what was passed on (Acts 18 is when this occurred).

In verse 11 he declares that such is what he preaches and what they, the Corinthians, believed.
Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

As a seeker after God, do you believe this?

 

[glorydaz]

I'm mainly using the words of Jesus here: [Mat 25:26 NKJV]
"But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed.'"

I think this is definitely where "religious" types are implicated--these are the ones that have the truth and bury it in the ground, such that it can't be used to find the "Broken Things"

But I also see my own laziness. How often do I see someone in need and don't help? More than I care to admit.

This may be a bit off topic, but I'd like you to consider something here. You saw someone in need. Were you prompted by the Spirit to reach out to them? Seeing a need and being prompted are two very different things. I learned this the hard way many years ago. I saw a need, and figured I would do something to help this person. I arranged things to help a girl get back on her feet, but it didn't work out like I'd planned. I was young in the Lord, wanting to do the "right thing". Afterwards, a dear brother was home from the mission field, and I spoke with him about this. He told me of what he called "amateur providence". We, too often, go before the Lord, and in doing so, we get in His way. The Lord had lessons he wanted this girl to learn, and I just kept her from learning them by my "interference". It's why I ask whether the Spirit had prompted you, and you had ignored HIM, or just didn't try to do something on your own. I think this is where the enemy steps in to sow seeds of doubt and guilt. We should never feel guilty for not going before the Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

What kind of help?

No, Derf ain't sending you a wad of cash. Put that "will work for food" back in the garage.

 

[Sonnet]

As a seeker after God, do you believe this?

It's hard to know what to believe Derf.

 

[glorydaz]

John 6:29 Matthew 11:28 John 10:9

Ah, clever, and a good point, too. :think:



But, what is missing? Not only the word Grace, but the blood, itself.

It's why Jesus still preached the law of commandments. "Be ye perfect..."

 

[Derf]

It's hard to know what to believe Derf.

Why? You seem to have boiled it down to nuts and bolts. Is it because of all the extra stuff we try to add to it? Is it because of the way we try to understand it? Neither of those things should come between a seeker and true faith, but I expect they do sometimes. Don't let the failures of believers keep you from being one yourself!

Or is it because it contradicts what you've been told from some other source?

 

[glorydaz]

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Jesus came to remove the condemnation of Adam's offence.

Maybe you can unconfuse me then by answering the last question here.

You said I quoted; I didn't. I was simply making a statement.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Who is making the offer, and how?

Don't assu me; I don't think I said anything about forgiveness, yet.


Hey, what did the people say at Pentecost when the speakers spoke?


Please don't blaspheme by judging my claim.

lain:

So did Christ open the door for every man by what He did?
Or did He only open the door for those men who would believe?

Actually, He opened the door on behalf of God, that whosoever believeth are able to come out. :chew:

 

[Sonnet]

Ah, clever, and a good point, too. :think:



But, what is missing? Not only the word Grace, but the blood, itself.

It's why Jesus still preached the law of commandments. "Be ye perfect..."

The Gospel was announced in advance, as you will know and that same Gospel - that of faith - was exercised by Abraham. Paul contrasts such faith with the curse of trying to achieve righteousness through works of the law.

It's still the same Gospel.

 

[Sonnet]

Why? You seem to have boiled it down to nuts and bolts. Is it because of all the extra stuff we try to add to it? Is it because of the way we try to understand it? Neither of those things should come between a seeker and true faith, but I expect they do sometimes. Don't let the failures of believers keep you from being one yourself!

Or is it because it contradicts what you've been told from some other source?

Irrespective of all the differing and conflicting views of the Gospel expressed here and throughout the Christian world, I don't see faith in Christ as simple and easy. Some of scripture reads like a fairy tale to me.

 

[Right Divider]

So did Christ open the door for every man by what He did?
Or did He only open the door for those men who would believe?

1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. ​

He is the Savior of all, but all do not accept Him... that ends badly for them.

 

[glorydaz]

The Gospel was announced in advance, as you will know and that same Gospel - that of faith - was exercised by Abraham. Paul contrasts such faith with the curse of trying to achieve righteousness through works of the law.

It's still the same Gospel.

How can it be the same Gospel?

Abraham was not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and those who believe Paul's Gospel of Grace are.

 

[Derf]

Irrespective of all the differing and conflicting views of the Gospel expressed here and throughout the Christian world, I don't see faith in Christ as simple and easy. Some of scripture reads like a fairy tale to me.

Fairy tales, by name and subject, deal with things outside our grasp. That doesn't mean none are true, unless we are fully grasping of all things. But most of the bible, in my opinion, reads much different from a fairy tale, including the books that contain those things that sound fairy-tale-ish. It is reported matter-of-factly, and though there is currently little or no proof of many of the events recorded, many have been verified by archeology and science, and the list grows daily. (If miracles bother you, C.S. Lewis's "Miracles" is worth the read.)

Faith in Christ is definitely not simple and easy. It involves taking up our cross daily (Luke 9:23); it involves counting the cost (Luke 14:28); it involves persecution (2Tim 3:12); it means loving those that are promised to hate you (Matt 5:44 and Matt 10:22). It means ridicule--sometimes by people who call truth a fable, and we don't always have a decent answer to their critiques. It may mean death of our bodies, but only our bodies (Matt 10:28). It definitely means resurrection of our bodies!

But it's available to the weakest, sickest, most vulnerable among us--and if they can handle it, perhaps we able-bodied and able-minded can, too.

 

[glorydaz]

1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. ​

He is the Savior of all, but all do not accept Him... that ends badly for them.

Yeah, it's a dichotomy of sorts, isn't it? And that's why we can't just look at any one verse when discussing the Bible, but be open to the full counsel of God.

Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.​

"Reconciled by His death....." Romans 5:10

But there would be no need for God to beseech men to BE RECONCILED if all men were reconciled.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.​